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2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? 2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river?

01-10-2015 , 02:26 AM
First post seeking hand advice, any input greatly appreciated. Was at the casino recently playing 2/5, this is the scenario:

New table, unknown players, roughly 4 orbits into the game. Hero has been playing LAG so far and it's probably obvious to the table -- had 1 bluff seen at showdown, and the few pots won at showdown so far were with SC or semi-garbage hands.

Villain seems loose and hyper aggressive -- has won most pots on the flop or turn. The rest of the table seems to be loose passive, lots of limping in and folding on the flop.

Hero has ~$430, villain ~$650

Hero (cutoff) dealt: AQ

Folded to hero, hero raises 3xBB.

Folded to villain in BB, villain 3bets to 8xBB.

Hero calls. Pot now $82.

Flop: J47

Villain bets $40, hero raises to $100, villain calls. Pot now $282.

Turn: 2

Villain starts picks up chips, looks like he's about to bet, but slowly checks.

Hero checks.

River: 10

Villain bets $80.

Hero ???

In this scenario, hero has $290 left. Villain slowed down once the third came on board, should we be worried about villain folding to a shove on the river? After hero shoves, villain is getting roughly 3:1 -- assuming villain does not have a flush, should we be worried about villain folding here?
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-10-2015 , 02:29 AM
Fold pre absent reads that he's 3betting light

Bet turn (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Shove river. Not close.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-10-2015 , 03:04 AM
Uhhhh bet the turn. Shove obviously.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-10-2015 , 06:29 AM
Pre is fine.

folding AQs in the co to a bb 3 bet from a hyper aggressive player is pretty bad IMO.

Flop is fine. Calling is fine also.

Turn is a bet and its not close.

And river is easy shove with stack sizes.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-10-2015 , 06:47 AM
Were we on the same table tonight lol?
Did villain have 44?
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-10-2015 , 07:12 AM
Pre is the only street I like,flat flop,$120 turn shove river....as played shove is the only answer,his calling river range is pretty in elastic ,either he's strong or he's not and any sizing will look strong.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-10-2015 , 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam levine
Pre is the only street I like,flat flop,$120 turn shove river....as played shove is the only answer,his calling river range is pretty in elastic ,either he's strong or he's not and any sizing will look strong.
If his calling range is elastic, then our sizing matters a lot.
Ducy?

Agree that we need to bet the turn small, esp against an agro villain.
Best case we bet the turn for $100 again, and he ck/ships over the top to rep the flush.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-10-2015 , 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
If his calling range is elastic, then our sizing matters a lot.
Ducy?
I think he probably does. The post you're responding to said "in elastic". Adam has a lot of random missing spaces/extra spaces which is not a big deal.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-10-2015 , 03:09 PM
Missed that. Yup.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-10-2015 , 03:13 PM
why are we raising flop? He may shove and we aren't going to like that.

Why did you check turn?

Call pre
Call flop
If he checks turn - bet $100 - If he bets turn you can call or raise
What ever happens on turn - if he checks river - just shove - if he bets river just raise all in.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-10-2015 , 03:53 PM
Bet turn then easy ship. Also IF I semi bluff raise flop I make it bigger to maximize fold equity.

As played I'm shipping. Any hand he has should fold to a river raise except smaller flushes and JJ probably. But he does still have over pairs in his range too. Clicking it up to give him rediculous odds to call is one option to get value from the middle of his range but honestly we should usually be getting that value ott. We checked the turn for deception. We now have to shove over his blocker bet and hope for a crying call.

Checking turn and raising small OTR is surrendering too much value.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-12-2015 , 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominated
Were we on the same table tonight lol?
Did villain have 44?
Haha, don't think so. Whereabouts do you play? I'm in the Chicago area.

Spoiler:
In this case, villain had JJ.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-12-2015 , 09:39 PM
Thanks for the advice y'all. Seems like the consensus is to bet the turn and shove on the river. As for calling his 3bet, hero didn't know for SURE but suspected villain could be 3betting light, as this was the 3rd time villain had 3bet in a very short period of time.

As for betting the turn, what's our bet size here? Too big and I'd be worried about scaring villain away, but obviously want to get as much called as possible.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-12-2015 , 11:05 PM
i also don't like the flop raise, JJ+, AK all beats us on this board if he clicks back.

ap, betting turn for easy river shove.

now shove.. any raise size will show your strength anyways
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-13-2015 , 12:38 AM
Can't remember the last time I made a nut flush. The next time I do. I think I will probably bet for big fat value. BET THE TURN!!!!!!
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote
01-13-2015 , 04:12 AM
Against a more straightforward player, I'd raise otf. Against this guy, I'd flat. Against the typical fish, raising gets a lot of folds otf because with his air, V is probably just b/f'ing otf oop. Also, if we don't get a fold with that raise, we're in position and can hit a nut hand and just a pair is often good, so we also have ways to win the hand on later streets, with or without a showdown. Life is good. Against this type of player, raising just bloats a pot in which we have A-high and if we get 3-bet our options are done, we just have to do the math and see if V mistakenly gave us enough odds to flat and hope our flush comes in. So I'd flat otf.

OTT, there's no downside to betting. When I check ott, it's with 1-pair hands mostly, hands I can't get 3 streets of value. When I can get 3 streets of value, I bet all 3 streets. If V has Kh-Xx, then he's not folding. If he paired the J he probably isn't folding. And sets can't fold. So bet.

OTR, it's a blocker bet. So keep a little balance and do what you'd do as a bluff against an obvious blocking bet, shove. There's really not much room for anything else anyway. A min-raise looks way more nutted than a shove, it's only a $130 difference.
2/5 NL, extracting most money from nut flush, shove on the river? Quote

      
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