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Old 05-22-2015, 10:11 PM   #26
8th_Street
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

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Originally Posted by jsmo0th10 View Post
"i laugh at him and ask him to rebuy full again so i can take it for a 3rd time. he pulls out a wad of probably 8-10k waves it in my face and tells me he spends more on fastfood in one week than i make in a year."

Had me rollin.

Anyway, sorry you got coolered. Wrong forum
got coolered? wasn't it a suck re-suck?
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Old 05-23-2015, 12:06 AM   #27
VegasDave31
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

Question about spoiler...

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Old 05-23-2015, 12:10 AM   #28
The Rumor
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

Plenty of places have no BBJ or require quads to be the losing hand.
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Old 05-23-2015, 12:22 AM   #29
Case2
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

On the flop, pot is 77 with effectives at 1600 for SPR 21. If we flat the flop, we're not getting stacks in without an overbet or a raise on the turn or river. Do we not want to play for stacks here? Or do we feel that if stacks are going in, we can count on V to help us out (while still losing)?
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Old 05-23-2015, 03:34 AM   #30
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

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Originally Posted by Case2 View Post
On the flop, pot is 77 with effectives at 1600 for SPR 21. If we flat the flop, we're not getting stacks in without an overbet or a raise on the turn or river. Do we not want to play for stacks here? Or do we feel that if stacks are going in, we can count on V to help us out (while still losing)?
I think we definitely want to play for stacks against a tilting V who has already overplayed AQ.

But OP was clearly uncomfortable with V's shove even after raising the flop. If he's going to raise/fold (and thus doesn't want to play for stacks), he shouldn't raise in the first place. It's a different and less optimal line to take but certainly an option. Raise/fold would be terrible, though.
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Old 05-24-2015, 01:38 AM   #31
discgolfing
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

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OP, can we reverse engineer this hand (and your posting of it) a minute?

What exactly was your reasoning for raising with bottom set?

Were you raising for value? If so, why were you concerned about pushback?

Were you raising to mess with the guy? Because it seems like the trash-talk was going both ways. Again, why worry about pushback in this case? Aren't you purposefully exploiting and/or antagonizing a tilting player to make terrible decisions?

Were you raising for information? Don't do this. It's terrible.

Were you raising to take down the pot before a scare card came off? As played, what weak draw-type hands would he be playing this way? If he just flat called and a spade, A, K, or incomprehensibly something that completed broadway came off on the turn, were you ever folding?

To be honest, it just sort of feels like you raised because you hit the flop so hard and then got freaked out when he pushed because there was so much money in the pot. That's pretty level 1 thinking. Neither of you seem like you were thinking about depth of stacks from a strategic/game play sense. Deep stacks aren't dicks you wave around, although this is a common misconception. Basically all you guys did was get all your money in on a pretty marginal situation, so way to gambol.

I'm not writing this to be a jerk, but if the goal of these threads is to identify how to play better, then I think you need to consider my questions and be honest with your answers.

If you really want to learn something from this hand (which is the purpose of a thread in a strategy forum), start by asking yourself those questions. If you didn't have some sort of plan in mind for your hand, what was guiding you in your decision making? It seems like you were both on tilt, you were just on the winning end of it.



Which leads me to my next point: sometimes we want to share crazy hands. Sometimes we want to share bad beats. Sometimes we want to post brags. Sometimes we level ourselves into thinking that there's actual strategy to examine and we don't even realize that our actual motivation is something else.

If you look through my thread history, you'll see that I've done this too. Hell, I did it last night. Nobody has commented on the thread yet, because there's nothing to say.

So yeah, this hand basically plays itself. You should have flatted the flop if you weren't comfortable with a shove here. Having read your results, crazy hand, bro.
I'm not op but this is a slam-dunk raise on the flop because villain is incompetent, tilting, mad at hero, and has plenty of money to burn so he will call us down multiple streets with any ace. It's as ABC of a play that there could possibly be. Flatting is FPS imo. That being said, getting shoved on is still pretty unexpected and narrows his range considerably. It's definitely a spot where we should take our time and try to get a read on him at the very least.

In response to op, the math here does say call. This is one of those spots though where you could go with a live read and find a hero fold if you sensed something fishy. But unless that's very clear, I can't find a fold. He did bet pretty big otf which would be unusual for a set on this board. And nothing you mentioned has made me think that he wouldn't play AK the exact same way.
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Old 05-24-2015, 01:43 AM   #32
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

Spoiler:
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Old 05-24-2015, 02:00 AM   #33
PoppaLarge
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

Disc, I agree, I'm pointing out that in this spot you can't raise/fold so if OP considered doing so it's indicative of a huge leak.
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Old 05-24-2015, 02:04 AM   #34
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

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Originally Posted by FloatingOOP View Post
huh?

and how am i a 51% favorite over his range of AA, KK, and AK? lol 2/3 have me drawing to one out...
Because there are 9 combos of AK only 6 of better sets.
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Old 05-24-2015, 02:32 AM   #35
discgolfing
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

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Disc, I agree, I'm pointing out that in this spot you can't raise/fold so if OP considered doing so it's indicative of a huge leak.
Fair enough. I just don't think that's 100% true in a live game - you can pick up a read/tell on villain and fold. Even if this only happens 2% of the time that's a substantial shift in EV when the bet we're facing is so massive and we're either way ahead or way behind like this.
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Old 05-24-2015, 03:16 AM   #36
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

I'm raising flop vs this guy all day long, seeing as how he overvalues one pair hands, and I'm calling the shove vs. him as he's not very good (and possibly tilting). Folding to anybody who is decent vs. the shove.
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Old 05-24-2015, 03:20 AM   #37
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

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Originally Posted by PoppaLarge View Post
Disc, I agree, I'm pointing out that in this spot you can't raise/fold so if OP considered doing so it's indicative of a huge leak.
I agree the hand is an obvious call, but I don't get why we can't raise for value and then fold to a huge overbet jam. Even if we want to get it in against his three street calling range, we could definitely not want to get it in against his overbet jam range.
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:32 AM   #38
PoppaLarge
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

The range of this v? No way.

I know I wrote a book and y'all grunched, but my point was that nothing in this hand says that OP had much of a plan.
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:21 AM   #39
Homey D. Clown
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

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Originally Posted by FloatingOOP View Post
I sucked out on him the first orbit I sat when i 3b his $20 open to $65 with AKdd. flop comes 10j 8. he checks, i lead 110, he jams for 350 more i call turns Q he flips QQ and river bricks out.

Quote:
huh?

and how am i a 51% favorite over his range of AA, KK, and AK? lol 2/3 have me drawing to one out...
You don't have to be a math wiz, but this is basic stuff. You're ahead both times and any self-respecting player should know this.
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Old 05-24-2015, 07:54 AM   #40
Homey D. Clown
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

Let me correct that: ...should know it's at least a coin flip.
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:19 PM   #41
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Re: 2/5 nl big decision vs smack talker

what do you make of his psb?

The talk is scary and I would take my time with my decision, but in the end it has to be a call. He has more combo's of AK then bigger sets.

Btw this board is pretty dry and given your past history why not call the flop? I like a call/call/shove on virtually ever run out that doesn't include an A.

He's going to keep betting w his entire range here if you just call. I wouldn't let him off the hook by raising the flop. The turn could be a raise depending on the card, just don't like the flop.
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