I am on the button with 108 effective stacksize is $400
Villain 1 is a young asian guy, seems like a thinking player who doesn't get out of line very much. Played one other hand with him when I squeezed from the small blind with 99. He raised all-in on a 7 high board with AK

Villain 2 is an older gentleman very fishy. Floats very weak hands but gives up on the turn if he doesn't hit. Saw him call of a lot of chips with bottom pair in one hand.

Villain 1 open raises to $25 Villain 2 calls. I call expecting at least 1 of the blinds to call, the SB does.

Pot (96$) Flop is Q103

SB checks, Villain 1 bets $30, Villain 2 calls. I call.


Turn 10
Villain 1 bets $50, Villain 2 calls. Pot ($286) I have about $320 behind and don't feel like I can either call and evaluate on the river or shove. I choose to shove.

Was floating the flop the right play? Was shoving the turn correct? I feel like Villain 1 had a range that included AT, QQ, AQ, KQ, KK, AA and maybe a few weaker holdings. Of those I beat everything but AT and QQ. Villain 2 could have basically anything.

What worse hands would call a shove here?
What are you targeting?
Do you think villain could have AA, KK, A10 on the flop and would (only) bet $30? What about that $50 turn bet?

I would narrow villain 1s range to AQ, KQ, QQ, KJ?, AK. I am beating all but one and it's unlikely that he will improve on the river. So I would call and minraise his river bet for value. Shoving is way too strong. We will hardly get calls and when we do, we'll likely be behind.


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Multi-way and few clean outs makes the flop either fold or raise. I prefer fold here.

I could go either way OTF... call or fold. But it's so cheap - that it's hard to fold.

OTT... there is an argument for smooth calling. It's the higher variance play and would likely get more $. Obviously there's quite a few rivers that could mess you up (basically any card over a 7 (besides the T). All in all I'm shoving.

fold pre

The problem with shoving is you can only ever have a 10 or a bluff, with a 10 being way more likely unless you are a maniac. So all better will call and everything else will fold. Flat and play poker.

I would expect this player to call with AQ, KQ, KK, AA, QQ, AT in this spot with the shove. While I lose to QQ and AT I get value from everything else. (I don't think he has any tens other than AT and possibly JTs in his range here)

I am also forcing the other player in the hand to pay a premium for any draws he has (which this player is likely to do.)

I am not saying your wrong, I just am outlining my thought process.

Fold pre. Suited one-gappers aren't good enough to call two villains 80BB deep. You rarely hit the board hard enough to justify staying in and you're not deep enough to float and outplay two+ villains postflop.

Fold the flop. The pfr continued and there is a caller. You have a weak hand and two interested players. Not good.

Miracle turn. I agree you should shove. There is less than a pot-sized raise left. You want all Qx, overpair, and draw hands to call. You're never folding, so gii to get value from worse.

I think the line is fine if you're 200+BB deep. Preflop and flop are spew <100BB.

V1's lead on the flop looks pretty weak, V2's call is even weaker. I'd raise the flop all day, or just fold.

Turn is a jam, no other option really.

No worries. There is no wrong (well, sometimes there is, lol)

It just seems unrealistic to me that a thinking player ever stacks off here with something we have beat unless he reads us as a maniac (so we can be bluffing) or a moron (so we can have something like a weaker queen) But even being a moron probably wouldn't be enough to justify that. I jet feel like we fold out Qx here for no reason.

The question becomes what are we really targeting here, I think. There aren't that many draws we need to be worry about unless we put ourselves in a universe where every draw is equally as likely, which doesn't seem reasonable to me.

Edit: Let's say you are V1 and someone with the image you have ships on you in this spot, what range do you put him on?

Based on my image at the table I would think he would put me on KQ or better with the possibility that I am semi-bluffing KJ or, although it is highly unlikely J9. He knows the only ten I can put him on is AT so it is very unlikely that he has one.

He might also think that I am shoving with a weaker Q hoping to fold AQ or similar hands.

The point that you're not supposed to have many 10s is definitely well taken. I think you shoving a weaker Queen, though possible, isn't really whats happening often enough for that to be a factor.

Would be interested to see results whenever you feel like enough time has passed, essentially I think we are more polarized then you think we are. And although its hard to put you on a 10, it's easier to do that than the alternative.

The result is, of course, pretty brutal. I shoved and he had the one hand in his range that I was really worried about QQ. The other player in the hand overcalled with KJ and folded face-up when the river bricked out and Queens Full took down a massive pot.

The thing I am wondering about is, as I think you are suggesting, I narrowed his range to QQ and maybe AT by shoving.

fold pre 80 bb deep. Call is fine a little deeper.

Flop bet is super weak, I'd rather raise the flop to $120, or just fold.

Turn shove is ok since you are so shallow, though I don't hate a call to keep both villains in, neither should have many outs to catch up if you are ahead. then call or shove river depending what happens. not too many scare cards can come on the river.

Imo raise flop is out of question. We dont have many realy strong hands, we have few incentive to raise with strong hands this rather dry flop. Besides we have better bluffs than 2nd pair/set blocker.
Deciding between call/fold I strongly incline to fold, even thouhg the bet is small our 2nd pair is still weak.

I think you hit it. Thats why I made the edit to try to put you in Vil's shoes. What is your calling range if a Villian who isn't a maniac ships this on you? Unless I level myself into a call, its really hard for me to think that AQ or even a hand like AA or KK is good here because V doesn't really have a reason to ship any hand those hands beat.

I think if I was deeper I would have called and evaluated on the river. The presence of the draw also helped push me towards shoving as there were a lot of bad cards for me on the river (A,9,Q are all very bad and K,J aren't so great either though admittedly less likely.)

I suppose I could have called and folded on any A,Q,9 river if I faced significant action.

Preflop mistake aside, floating flop for 1/3 PSB is fine in position here. On the turn I'd put in a small raise to $125-150 which sets up a pretty easy river shove that AQ can feel pot committed to call, especially if the OESD and flush draw bricks out.