My image young TAG. UTG+1 is a typical loose-passive fish who overvalues pairs and other hands postflop, etc. UTG+1 $500 eff, raises to $20. 2 MP callers call, both about $500 eff. HJ is the mark of the table, small biz owner whale. He's playing 80% of hands preflop, raising 60%, limping 20% and folding 20%. But postflop he's much tighter. He will ship only with very strong hands postflop but can call off smaller multiple streets fairly light. He's capable of both c-betting and checking post-flop. He's capable of bluffing postflop but not superbig. $1000 eff. He makes it $65. I have not seen him 3-bet before. Folds to you in BB with AKo. Pot ~ $125

Things to consider:

1. AK will miss flop 2/3 of the time. The Loose-Passive and especially the mark might both call a 4-bet. Both can peel flops light, especially the mark who regularly peels as weak as bottom pair or gutshot or something like AQ that whiffed flop. So ability to c-bet missed flops is limited. Do we want to play a big 4-bet pot if flatted?

2. There are already 4 people in the pot. This table skews loose-passive. How many of them are holding Ax or Kx, your outs?

3. What will you do if you 4-bet and get 5-bet shoved on?

So... what are you doing and why? What's your plan?

it's kinda heresy but I don't mind a fold here. HJ is probably never 3b/folding and it's hard to put him on much weaker than AQ. AKo plays bad OOP so calling sucks and you're deep enough that racing PF isn't an attractive proposition.

at a 9-handed table AK is less a raise/jam/get it in hand deep than at 100BB 6-max.

my assumption is that I expect HJ to have too narrow of a 3b range to extract any fold equity, and even if he does tighten up OTF, the flops that are likely scary for him are the ones we hit, so we can't really take advantage of that aspect here.

my gut feeling is that we don't need a cold 4b range here besides QQ+ bc EP/HJ action represents at least 1 hand that's going to be unbluffable, but idk whether that's right.

Fold pre and it's not close. Even a lot of players who raise wide has tight 3bettig ranges. Hard to get action from worse when you flop top pair but you get stacked when you hit tptk and villain flops a set or overpair
If you don't expect to get 4bet, I'd flat only QQ-22, mainly setmining the smaller PPs but may call low flops and fold turn. 4bet Fold Kk and 4bet AA

4bet to $200, and never fold postflop if you get called preflop by HJ.

really?

folding is out of the question. if my only two options are go all in or fold, i'd happily put it in. there's already $130 in the pot and you're only playing $1000. we're talking about HJ who raises 60% of his hands pre.

i would call. if the others call (mostly likely outcome), that's $325 in the pot. having the button, one bet in front of you will let you basically go all in with TPTK if you hit. not a bad situation to be in imo.

edit: wait, i thought we were on the button for some reason. hold on a sec... yeah, i probably still call.

LOL

Call 5-bet shove regardless of who shoves?

Sounds like you know a lot about the V so I'm assuming a couple hours of history at a minimum. So this is his first ever 3 bet? Insta fold.

described villain plays a lot of hands and raises a lot pre flop.he peels flop super light but look at his post flop play. when the money gets big, he tightens up considerably.

200bb deep, if he 5bets you, what do you beat? hes always 5betting 6 combos of AA, and 1 of KK. if you throw in the occasional spaz with 1 combo of QQ and 2 combos of AKs, you are still not getting the right odds. he's aggro pre but only when the pot is small. 100bb deep, we stack off, but there's a point where stacking off is incorrect

and we're 4betting for pure value cause we do well against his 3bet range. we're crushed by his 5bet range, so we 4bet for value and fold to the 5bet. poker is about relative strength, not absolute strength

please come up with a 5bet range (with combos) that we do well against.

6bet fold to semibluff kk.

You're options IMO are either 4 bet or fold....if suited then could make a stronger case for flatting but as it is, I don't want to play an inflated pot OOP against multiple opponents...the only flop you could feel comfortable on is AAx or KKx.

Since you have some history with villain and never seen 3 bet....I have to fold it here and simply never tell anyone. You lose your big blind here and hopefully you'll get to see V's holdings for future reference.

I think folding is atrocious. Don't like 4-betting although it's a much better option. I called and check folded whiffed flop.

HJ had 77. I called, UTG+1 called, 1 MP called, the other MP folded and we saw flop 4-way. UTG+1 had AJo, somehow stumbled thru HJ's c-bet on whiffed flop, turn check-check, binked an Ace OTR and won the pot.