Hero ($700) - 30 year old male, TAG image. Entering hands raising and c-betting to take down pots with high frequency.

V1 ($700) - Early 30's male from Sweden, TAG image - has tried to limp early position with marginal hands in trying to get into pots cheaply. Haven't seen much aggression from him so far.

V2 ($1300) - Older LAG player. Playing several pots and mixing up his play.... deck has been hitting him and been running well. Sticky player and doesn't give up on hands easily.

6 handed (some players had got up for a bit from the table)

V1 limps in EP, Hero looks down at Q10 in CO and raises to $20. V2 on button calls and V1 calls.

Flop ($67) 1034

V1 checks, Hero bets $40, V2 calls....V1 c/r to $125.

Hero???

Call and if v2 spazzes thank your lucky stars. But call.

I am calling due to pot odds and hoping to hit the flush on turn because passive swede has a big hand.

Basically, depending on how you range V1 here, you probably have somewhere between 55% equity against him HU (if he can do this with a lot of TPTK / TPGK hands as well as sets and bigger spade draws) down towards 45% or a little worse (if he is only doing this with his best TP hands, 2p+ and nut spade draws).

V2 is probably either on a float or a draw, so I kind of hate flatting here if V1 has a made hand and V2 has a live draw. If we give V2 a typical calling range for a LAG on button preflop (suited one and two gappers in spades, Axss, KQ-K9ss) and keep him in the hand, our equity gets down towards 30% or worse.

So two big questions - how likely is V1 to c/r two opponents here with 1 pair, and how likely is it that V2 would have raised a better draw than yours (A or K hi flush draw) when you c-bet the flop?

If we think V2 would have frequently raised his live draws when we first bet, and we think V1's range tends towards stronger made hands that aren't folding and few draws, I think a case can be made for flatting the flop, but it feels kinda gross.

Looool.

I think I call.

Calling does lots of great things:
- You will maintain position on V1.
- You might encourage an overall from BTN.
- You avoid getting it in against a very strong V1 stacking off range.

Also, QsTs is a unique situation here for a flush draw because you have a somewhat strong made hand with TPGK. So 3-betting the flop is a mistake for that reason, too. It's a bad semi-bluff because villain will very rarely fold better made hands.

But now I'm thinking more about V2's range for flatting pre and calling your $40 turn bet. V2 is important here. I think it's very possible V2 has the best hand a lot (AT, KT) here, while V1 has a range that is fairly draws-heavy with the occasional set.

So in my original assessment, I really hadn't considered V2 enough. I think V2 can easily have a middling one-pair hand that is currently ahead. While V1 has a super strong range, it is more draw-heavy than set-heavy, and we have the best made hand vs. V1 a decent % of the time. If we just flat, I don't think V2 will over call with 55-99, but he would over call with TPTK type hands.

Long story short, I think you can shove now to get V2 to fold a range that I think has a few more better made hands than worse made hands. And V1 has a lot of spade draws, and even if they're better draws than ours - KsXs or AsXs - we have really good equity because we're blocking 2 of his outs and are already ahead with top pair. Like we're 60/40 against As8s. And against his dominated flush draws like 9s7s, 9s8s, etc., we're like 95/5.

I guess it comes down to V2's range pre-flop and flop. If he's calling your $40 flop bet with 55-99, JT, 56, 4x, 3x, etc., as well as better top pair hands, then I'd flat. If he's gonna be tighter pre-flop and call the flop with AT, KT, QT, JT, T9 type hands, then I'd definitely raise to try to get him to fold. He has a huge amount of equity with those hands.

Yeah, those are a couple of thoughts.

I think the interesting thing is that while V1 is the aggressor here, V2 is super important.

If we think V2 will over call with a wide range of made hands and weak draws, including lol OESDs, then def call. Free money.

If we think V2 will stick around only with a more narrow range of stronger hands - and that he might fold to a 3-bet - then def raise.

willy, shouldn't LAG V2 be raising his better one pair hands than ours a lot on this board? Is he really flatting AT with the spade draw and another player left to act? I am more worried about him having a better draw than a better made hand. I think it matters a lot whether he would call or raise with the NFD on the first flop bet.

I think V1's range mostly consists of made hands better than AT, and draws better than ours. Hero thinks he's not that aggressive and at least somewhat competent, so he shouldn't be x/r a hand like JT on this board.

For those reasons I think I agree that flatting is best.

Flat is best. V1s line is super strong and should mostly represent sets and strong draws. I really don't want to get it in vs that range. As an aside if his range was mostly overpairs rather than sets then I would be raising this hand all day.

All I can think about is 'The Blue Hotel' by Steven Crane from high school or college where a Swede (he is referenced only as "The Swede") catches a guy cheating at cards and later gets stabbed to death by a professional gambler.

I actually wasn't as concerned with V2...at this point, I'm putting him on some type of straight draw, mid-flush draw, middle pair, top pair. Any stronger and he'd be raising here IMO. V1's range I'm putting at sets or strong flush draws at this point. I would be surprised here to see him have 33 or 44 though as I see him as competent and not set mining OOP with small pairs....so more heavily weighted toward Axs...

Doesn't happen too often but lost in this hand as to what to do....

I don't want V2 following along really as unsure where he's at but fairly certain he'll follow along if I flat. Should I be charging V1 for his flush draw??

With these stacks there is no problem with v1 showing up with a small set here. You raised small in position and got another caller, he gets to overcall closing the action.

I think if you 3b turn you are frequently going to knock out a hand you are well ahead of (v2) only to get shoved on by a hand that's beating you. Even if his range is exclusively NFDs and sets, he has more combos of sets and he is shoving them pretty much always.

If you knew for sure that v1 has a bigger spade draw then it's a clear 3b but of course we don't know that.

Not trying to be results oriented...seems to be a very marginal, high variance spot. Should I be flatting the raise on the flop. Axs was largest probability in my thought process...if A comes I can make an easy fold IMO and get out relatively cheaply rather than stacking off as only a slight favorite.

You were 60% favorite when the money went in--no reason to feel bad
about it at all.

Given your image, Villain misplayed his hand. You have absolutely no fold equity and are representing a range of TsXs and sets (he even has the blocker to 56ss). Your range crushes him so he should fold to your raise.

BTW, you absolutely are being results oriented. You were a 60% favorite to win the hand. The reason I think a flat is better though is because his range consists heavily of sets which are a 70% favorite vs your hand on the flop.

About 10 people gave the right answer already.

Just to summarize:

Call the flop and fold the turn if no spade.

this is super fist pump-shove on flop. V2 will fold like 95% of the time. V1 isn't folding and yea there are sets in his range but there are way more combos of draws.

I mean, OK, let's be results oriented.

You got V2 to fold away 22% equity in a 3-way pot.

Then you got all-in against V1 with a much better hand as a 60/40 favorite.

And you're upset? Come on now. This is a great result.

His range does not, and never does, consist "heavily of sets."

33, 44 = 6 combinations of possible hands.

6 combos.

Yeah if he's polarized to draws and sets then there are more combos of draws than made hands in his range. We gotta try to get it in and fold out V2's 1pair hands.

Guess I am being more results oriented with my thinking...

Appreciate all the feedback!!

7 (one combo of TT)

still, only giving villain all the combos of nut flush draw he already has more draws in his range than sets.

add in some lower FDs/OESD+BDFDs and we know villain range isn't weighted toward nut hands. there's also chance that the villain's draw or pair outs aren't even live. this is such an awesome spot i can't imagine why anyone would want to fold. especially against a euro.

It sounds like we eliminate or heavily discount Tx from the Swedes range to c/r the flop which I agree with. This leaves a range of sets, 4x3x, AxRx, and combo draws. We do fine to get it in versus this range OTF, but the question is whether this is the optimal line.

For those advocating a call of the c/r OTF, what is your plan for a spade OTT? Seems like it presents another really tough spot if he leads with a range of sets and made flushes a lot of them nut. Is this an argument for getting it in on the flop? The other V's action of course complicates.

The proper wording would have been "value range." His value range is pretty much just sets in this spot and we aren't getting him to fold any of them. There would be a lot more value in raising here if his value range also consisted of one pair hands such as over pairs that he would fold a percentage of the time when we raise.

We have position on the villain that check-raised which makes this a super easy spot. We are going to have a good deal of control over how much money goes into the pot on future streets. If we were OOP this would be an infinitely more difficult spot.

Your play was optimal, definitely happy to get it all in on that flop.

A couple things wrong with your original analysis of the players tho.

Hero: your image is not TAG if you are raising with "high frequency." This is more LAG as far as live images go.

V1: "haven't seen much aggression from him" So how is his image TAG? TAG- Tight AGGRESSIVE
His image is tight passive or loose passive not TAG.