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1/2 QJs 2nd barrel? 1/2 QJs 2nd barrel?

08-11-2013 , 02:37 AM
Edgwater casino, Canada
1/2 $300 max buy-in

Hero: mid 20s white male. Been at the table for about an hour and a half and have been quite card dead. Opened one hand for no callers, limp called 2 or 3 raises. That's about it. Probably viewed as a bit loose/weak by villain. Stack $270

Villain: 20s/30s east Indian male wearing aviator glasses. He's been #1 pfr by a large margin, opening up a lot of hands with 12, sometimes small as 7. The only other TAGish player has been one of the few calling his raises and taking pot away otf or OTT. I'd say he's playing almost LAG but he checks EVERYTHING. TP, 2pair, flopped trips, even boated up on river and still check. Not to say he doesnt have a fold button, but he's usually the only person to call a flop bet and play OOP vs anyone. When he c/raises its been double bet. Haven't seen him float too much, usually c/calls with a decent hand. Deck has been hitting him in the face, it's pretty sick how much value he's been losing by c/cing. Stack covers, ~400ish

UTG+1 limps, folds to Hero in CO who raises to 12 with QJ, fold to villain in SB who calls, folds to UTG+1 who calls as well.

Flop: ~$36
T85

Both players check to hero who bets 22, villain calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ~$80
t857

Villain checks, Hero...?

Thanks in advance
1/2 QJs 2nd barrel? Quote
08-11-2013 , 02:56 AM
I bet/fold 50 here, setting up an easy shove if we hit our flush. Given reads, I don't bluff river, and likely check back if we hit our overs too.
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08-11-2013 , 03:00 AM
I would take a free card.

He most likely has a soul read on you for AK and is in call down mode.

If you hit your straight or flush overbet pot to $80.

Check back if we hit overs.
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08-11-2013 , 03:02 AM
I'm double barreling here pretty much everytime personally with a flush draw and a gutshot as well as two overs(could be counterfeited by straight, set two pair, etc. but the call looks weak). villain could have a10 here and be calling down. worst case he hit his straight on the turn. probably have to fold if you are raised ott. The bigger question is what to do if a blank hits on the river.
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08-11-2013 , 03:05 AM
I have only triple barreled 3x in all of 2013.

You must have solid history/reads on villian to do so...

It's usually lighting money on fire at 1/2.
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08-11-2013 , 03:05 AM
Is he a calling station? I couldn't tell from your post. LAG who doesn't raise? You sure that isn't LAP?

If he calls alot, I'd take the free card. It sounds like a pair of tens isn't folding, much less 2p+.

If you think he can fold a pair I say go for what Garick said.
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08-11-2013 , 03:09 AM
Dude is never folding.

Look at villians tendencies...he is a slowplayer/check/caller...

Enjoy lighting that money on fire double and triple barreling villians like this.

I love watching competent players burn through buy ins like this.
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08-11-2013 , 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderstron!
Is he a calling station? I couldn't tell from your post. LAG who doesn't raise? You sure that isn't LAP?

If he calls alot, I'd take the free card. It sounds like a pair of tens isn't folding, much less 2p+.

If you think he can fold a pair I say go for what Garick said.
He's opening up a lot preflop and will Cbet but is check/calling a **** ton OOP, even when is the pfr. I wouldn't say he's a calling station, just perhaps a heater of cards?

He has called flop and folded on turn twice in the last 2 rounds.
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08-11-2013 , 04:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NebDanger
He's opening up a lot preflop and will Cbet but is check/calling a **** ton OOP, even when is the pfr. I wouldn't say he's a calling station, just perhaps a heater of cards?

He has called flop and folded on turn twice in the last 2 rounds.
then it definitely calls for a second barrel.
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08-11-2013 , 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly
then it definitely calls for a second barrel.
I should make it clear both times were to the other TAG player who was pretty much table captain.

Villain has been +1 to my left and I've been waiting to seat change. He ran over the table for about 45 min till TAG player joined, in which TAG player called his pfr and bet flop/bet turn to take down the pots.
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08-11-2013 , 04:42 AM
Dudes never folding T with that many draws about. You'd have to triple barrel. Just check it.
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08-11-2013 , 04:53 AM
I agree with LotGrinder. Take the free card. Yes he may have called flop then folded turn twice in the last two rounds, but you said in the OP that he checks everything. He could have a monster here and just be waiting for another bet to call. If he perceives you as loose/weak then your double barrels mean much less to him that the TAG's. After running over the table only to be put in his place by the TAG he probably doesn't want to cede anymore pots--especially to you.
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08-11-2013 , 05:35 AM
Definitely bet, in the neighborhood of 1/2 PSB. The overs are probably good (I'd check the river if we hit them) but you can figure 12 outs for the nuts.

So if you bet 40, and get c/r to 120, you're getting about 3:1 on your money and your about a 3:1 dog, so it'd take a huge raise (a raise much bigger than 120 if you figure in implied odds) to price you out of the hand, which is a pro for bet/calling.
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08-11-2013 , 11:09 AM
The idea of a small second barrel isn't primarily to get him to fold a T, it's to set up playing for stacks if we hit. FE OTT is just a bonus.
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08-11-2013 , 12:22 PM
Pf and flop seem standard. Turn I'm ok with betting 40 or checking. I'd be wary of betting if he was aggressive but he's clearly not. I guess I'd rather check tho bc I don't like triple barreling this guy.
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08-11-2013 , 02:53 PM
Hand is played well so far. We have lots of equity in nice size pot. Sounds like a calling station so I would check and take my free card. No way I want to throw my equity away by bet/folding. Bet/calling isn't bad if we are sure he will gets stacks in on river if we hit.
We would have our fold equity on the turn plus 9-12 outs on river.

Sent from my DROID X2
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08-11-2013 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
The idea of a small second barrel isn't primarily to get him to fold a T, it's to set up playing for stacks if we hit. FE OTT is just a bonus.
I'm not sure about this idea given that the worse card in the deck hit the turn (The 7d is literally the worst barreling card imo). But either way, another ancillary benefit to betting the turn is we set ourselves up for a nice profitable bluff on the river should an Ace or King hit.

Anyways, ignoring the times we actually hit the turn, I'm definitely barreling the turn if an A,K,2,3,5,8 hit.

As played, I'd probably check behind the turn.
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08-11-2013 , 04:39 PM
OP, what kind of hands was villain showing down? What kinds of hands is he cold calling with from the blinds?

Given info from OP, he's probably check calling here and checking the river as well. Shouldn't we only be betting for value?

Equity-wise, we're beating a T, we can safely check back if we don't hit the river, and we can play for stacks if we hit our flush or straight.
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08-11-2013 , 06:04 PM
^EDIT: We're behind a T here, lol. Didn't include turn card on Pokerstove. Add me to the check back list.
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08-12-2013 , 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NebDanger
Edgwater casino, Canada
1/2 $300 max buy-in

Hero: mid 20s white male. Been at the table for about an hour and a half and have been quite card dead. Opened one hand for no callers, limp called 2 or 3 raises. That's about it. Probably viewed as a bit loose/weak by villain. Stack $270

Villain: 20s/30s east Indian male wearing aviator glasses. He's been #1 pfr by a large margin, opening up a lot of hands with 12, sometimes small as 7. The only other TAGish player has been one of the few calling his raises and taking pot away otf or OTT. I'd say he's playing almost LAG but he checks EVERYTHING. TP, 2pair, flopped trips, even boated up on river and still check. Not to say he doesnt have a fold button, but he's usually the only person to call a flop bet and play OOP vs anyone. When he c/raises its been double bet. Haven't seen him float too much, usually c/calls with a decent hand. Deck has been hitting him in the face, it's pretty sick how much value he's been losing by c/cing. Stack covers, ~400ish

UTG+1 limps, folds to Hero in CO who raises to 12 with QJ, fold to villain in SB who calls, folds to UTG+1 who calls as well.

Flop: ~$36
T85

Both players check to hero who bets 22, villain calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ~$80
t857

Villain checks, Hero...?

Thanks in advance
Turn: ~$80
t857

Villain checks, hero bets 42, villain raises to 84, hero calls. (Is anyone really not calling here?)

River: ~$245
t857Q

Villain checks, Hero...?
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08-12-2013 , 03:36 AM
Nh, snap check river.
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08-12-2013 , 03:42 AM
Barrel the turn!! We have so much damn equity and position. Like someone said before, you have to build a pot for a river value bet.
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08-12-2013 , 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NebDanger
Turn: ~$80
t857

Villain checks, hero bets 42, villain raises to 84, hero calls. (Is anyone really not calling here?)

River: ~$245
t857Q

Villain checks, Hero...?
You could go for thin value on the river but I would most likely check it back. He can have weak two pair combos that he's not betting for value and he's scared of stronger holdings.
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08-12-2013 , 04:52 AM
I check back river. Just too much chance to value own ourselves here.
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08-12-2013 , 01:56 PM
One of the biggest mistakes I'm seeing people make recently (not that it costs them a ton of $ when they do this, but it's a huge indicator for me that they're horrible) is that they'll bet rivers when they have showdown value, instead of checking.

Most of the time it's not a hand like this post, it's more like a 3way pot mostly checked to the river of 699-K-7 and they'll bet the 7 they hit.

But the concept is the same, and I'd check behind here.
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