My image TAG, $500 eff. Folds to loose-passive who makes it $15 from MP, I call in CO with Ah6h, button calls, blinds fold.

Flop: ThTd8h Pot ~ $50 Checks thru.
Turn: 6s MP checks, I bet $30, button raises to $75, MP folds, I call.
River: 3h Pot ~ $200

You, why and what's your plan if you bet and get re-raised OTR? Feedback on all streets welcome.

Calling pre is not TAG. What is your reasoning for checking the flop when the pfr checks? What are you playing this hand for if you don't bet in this spot?

A/P, need some sort of reads on your V's to give any meaningful advice.

Bet flop.
As played bet river ~$125.

Value shove river.

What could button have? Couple of possibilities.
1. JJ+, played poorly.
2. Nothing; an ill-advised bluff.
3. Tx? Nah. Nobody is that stupid.
4. That really only leaves three rational possibilities: T8, 66, and TT.

I agree you played this hand like a monkey, but I see your point.

Is there a general lesson here?

Maybe that, putting aside for a moment the paired board, that loosely and passively drawing to a flush isn't usually a good use of your money in no-limit?

No reads on the button?

What is your read on the button?

If you think about the types of hands your opponent might raise on the turn, you're looking at: Tx, full houses, combo draws and bluffs, and straights. I think it's rare your opponent raises a hand like JJ/89/87/77 on the turn, my gut says they call a lot or bet the flop with those hands, who knows though. I also think if you consider what your opponent might think of the hands you call the turn with, they may likely conclude that you're calling with a strong hand like: Tx/draws/straight/slow-playing a house/quads. Like a turn bet/call has to appears strong to any reasonably competent opponent.

On the river if we bet, you have to be willing to call a river raise if you feel your opponent can raise the river with his flushes or be bluffing and recklessly raising Tx or a straight, a non-zero percent of the time.

Considering the discussion over what to do on the river, I think it's safe to say you perhaps overestimated your implied odds on the turn. On the turn you were getting slightly less than 3.5:1 without any implied odds you need roughly 22% equity to continue with the hand. If we assume your opponent's turn raising range is indeed: Tx, full houses, combo draws and bluffs, and straights you likely are slightly above break-even at calling the turn. We have no reads, so it's probably fine vs. an unknown. However, against a tighter player it's probably a fold on the turn, especially considering the uncertainty over a river decision.

Bet $30 on flop. As played I'd bet fold $135 on river. I'd shove river if villain can't fold trips or a straight

Fold preflop.

OP said his image was TAG. Just b/c he flats flop doesn't mean that he's not TAG overall. What are you suggesting a TAG would do in this spot, fold because he was tight or raise because he was aggressive???

The flat is fine but hero has to bet flop when checked to.

If you bet $135 and the opponent went all-in, you'd be looking at calling $265ish into $735ish, you're getting 2.8:1 - I don't think you need to be good too frequently to make calling there correct. I don't know how to work out how frequency your opponent needs to raise worse flushes to make calling correct, but, instinctively it doesn't feel like he needs to do so very often.

I'd guess there is probably around twelve combos of worse flushes he could have made on the river (with a turn raising range of only flush+straight draws for his hearts) and around ten combos of full-houses/quads (giving him all possible ones but 33). I think he shouldn't need to even raise all his combos of flushes to make calling correct as there certainly should be a non-zero percent chance he spazzes out with something like 89/87.

It's certainly close and against a tight player it's probably a bet/fold. However, there are no reads given in this hand and I think someone smarter than me can probably work out the frequency your opponent needs to raise worse to make calling correct or incorrect. I'm just guessing that it doesn't need to be too often.

Also, why would you bet $135 if you intended to fold and not say $100?

Here's what the post you're responding to said: Calling pre is not TAG.

A TAG would never be in this spot because their poker strategy wouldn't involve calling and hoping to be lucky.

[ QUOTE=au4all;44078428]Here's what the post you're responding to said: Calling pre is not TAG.



A TAG would never be in this spot because their poker strategy wouldn't involve calling and hoping to be lucky.[/QUOTE]

Are you really suggesting that a player should not mix up his game to suit table dynamics and the villains

Hero has put 3% of the effective stacks in by calling, with huge implied odds in position.

Please explain. Are you saying that the only standard +ev TAG line in this spot is to raise and win the $22 by not seeing a flop or by raising, 'getting lucky' and being called and likely having to bluff post flop with air? Not to mention the other possibility of us being 4 bet?

Why?

^^^
I think he's saying a TAG would fold preflop.

Really. Surely only OMC folds preflop

Bet flop!

History on button? Is he an agrotard? If so, my favorite play here is to bet 30 OTR and call the raise. If he's a standard 2/5 player, i'm bet/folding 140 or so.

A6s is a trash hand for flatting a loose-passive's MP open-raise.

Calling $15 pre-flop in position against loose passive...is perfectly fine. Play poker...

I like betting this flop when checked around to you and hope to take it down. As played bet/fold river @$140-$160...

I would have re raised pre flop to isolate and gain position. You are at a disadvantage already with someone behind you. Position is king IMO



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Button's a new player, middle-aged man. You're b/fing river because you're putting him on a full house if he raises?

With no history I feel like it has to be a bet/fold. A huge majority of 2/5 players I've seen will not raise river without a boat. Unless I know for a fact he has a tendency to overvalue hands, i'm going to let it go. It comes down to the math... What percentage of 2/5 players will raise river with a lesser hand than yours either for value or as a bluff? If you think the math checks out to make it a profitable call then by all means call. But imo its less than 10%.

If you had J9o in CO, would you call a loose-passive $15 MP open-raise? FYI, A6s = J9o in this spot.

Pre is fine (altough not TAG).

Flop is a bet. (Once MP, original raiser, checks)

Turn is probably a fold, although you are getting 4.5 to 1 on a call.

River bet $125, call a shove. There's too much Tx, 79, etc. in there. Likely, you will just get a call. It is a tough call on the river, but you have to decide whether you are b/f or calling the all-in before you make the bet.

I would like to better understand why folding A6s is best in this spot. Are you saying because villain's range is really tight?

In defense of calling pre, I would argue that A6s is generally ahead of most villains range in this spot (making it $15 often indicates a QJ type hand). I also think A6s is much easier to play postflop than J9. Plus we are likely to have ultimate last position from the cutoff.