I've done FPS stuff early in sessions with no info and discovered it is spewy more often than not. We have no clue if this guy is capable of folding TP and we have no idea what his button opening range is. Why are we 3 bet bluffing with 0 dead money in the pot? This is basically a squeeze play but we are risking 70 to win 20 dollars.

I say fold pre and enough said really. The boards is dry and double barreling does get lots of folds from under pairs but the problem is we don't even have a range defined. We are still attempting a -EV play preflop with no information on our villian. He could be an absolute station.

Wat?

If I think the new 3bettor is bluffy I'd be more inclined to call. If I'm more inclined to fold that would indicate I think new 3bettor is strong I guess. Not sure, question is confusing

New players always tend to get more credit. But the problem here is not the fact that hey we are new so we should get credit for a monster. It's more-so the fact that we have 0 info on V or his range and are OOP 3betting A3

Can all the "fold pre" people give me what you perceive to be villains opening range? Kthx

We don't know because we are brand new to the table and have no history with V.

It could be ATC or it could be QQ+

This is just an ego leak with no reads. I'm brand new to the table, I'm a superstar, button ranges are typically wide, so I'm 3betting A3 and showing this dude what's up. The table will think I'm so awesome after this

Not only do we need to have a grasp for his opening range, but we need to understand how he will play post. A decent amount of the time he is flatting our 3! and now we are playing a bloated pot OOP with A3 against a V we know nothing about. Is he fit or fold? Can we bet almost any flop and turn to get scared money to fold? Is he another superstar who is going to show us and the table how awesome he is by floating and blowing us off the hand on later streets? Does he bluff? Call down light? Is he a super donkey station drooler? These things would be nice to know. We need more info

+1

His range is 200BB and position.

I meant what kind of hands he is opening with. We should only be 3betting pre if he is opening wide and not defending against 3bets wide enough. This is quite the assumption when he is on the button and we are 200bbs deep.

my point is that it doesn't really matter what his range is, if we call too wide, we're going to get crushed in the long run.

So if he is opening 100% of hands on the BTN you think A3dd is a fold??? He'd have to be a combination of very good post flop and our hero very bad post flop for that scenario to be true. Also, if he is that good post flop then 3betting is wayyyy worse anyways.

Pre is fine assuming he's straightforward and folds to cbets too often.

Sucks that the flop bet was so large because now you don't have much FE with a turn barrel. As played I think betting half pot is best.

Fold pre
/thread

Can we agree that very likely he is opening a tighter range than optimal while not exclusively opening premiums? Therefore you have the unhappy combination of a guy likely to have a good hand (less likely to be bluffed) while also not exclusively the nut preflop hands (less likely to get married to it). In these spots folding is neutral ev as your blind is already in there.

If we knew something, anything about villain, it might become a clearer call because we can determine if V is too likely to be bluffed or an infrequent folder. In the absence of that info, take the neutral ev play and go on.

Lol this.

+10000000

We know nothing about Villian.

EDIT: lol except this

Fold pre all day. You're out of position with a weak ace against an unknown villain. Be discplined and protect your stack here for this hand when you have position.