900 eff... I have been active, there is a massive spot in the game who has been opening to 10 and I have been making it 20 almost everytime and folding out the people behind me and playing lots of HU pots

One pro commented on all my min 3b but instead of adjusting has just let me do it... Villian in this hand is 25 yr old euro who had been playing pots but nothing special

Bad live pro open limps utg, fish makes it 15 (slightly bigger)... I make it 25 in HJ w 810hh, euro flats sb, pro flats utg, fish calls... 4 way to flop

Flop Jh 9s 6d


Cks to me

I bet 80


Euro on 875 stack makes it 250


The way he bet and timing has me leaning towards him "making a stand" instead of having a set or 2 pairs, although that's possible... He would have 3b JJ pre so we can dismiss that IMO had I think he'd have raised a set smaller IMO



Folds back to us and we ?


Plan for turns and rivers?

What's going on pre? Can you talk to us about your reasoning?

I have been min 3balling the fishes 10 opens all night

Reason being, everyone folds too often behind me and I get to play heads up deep w a fish while in position w nobody to worry about behind me... Somehow nobody is adjusting to this but lol live pro grumbled about my min bets

Don't mind a ship here. Given V's description you should expect clean outs.

Yeah, your sizing pre is super strange, but if it's working for you, then go for it I guess.

But part of the reason to isolate pre is also the possibility that your raise takes it down pre-flop - that's one of the ways to win the hand (other main ways being c-bets and making strong hands). With your raise size, you really don't have a chance to win pre.

I mean, in this hand, you went 4-way to the flop. That's not what you want.

For starters on the flop, don't c-bet. J96r 4-way is not generally a good c-bet situation or texture. Too many villains. Basically EVERY broadway hand has some sort of top pair or draw. Lower card value hands like 98, T9, 87, 67, etc., have pairs, draws, etc. Picture ranges - if you do, you'll realize way too many ranges have a little bit of something here. You're just not getting enough folds with a c-bet. I don't necessarily expect you to get raised often at all, but when you do, it also puts you in a very tough spot.

I might very, very rarely c-bet 4-way anyway, but not on this texture. K72r - now that's an ultra-dry hero-range-hitting texture I'd probably go ahead and fire even 4-way.

Anyway, now you're in a very tough spot. I think it's just a fold. He check/raised next to act with 2 other villains remaining in the hand 4-way. Calling to see one card in position getting a bit more than 2:1 just isn't cutting it for you. Shoving is super speculative. And although it's a pretty unlikely problem, your draw is not to the nuts.

Wouldnt 8-10 of hearts be the kind of hand you WANT to go 4 way to the flop with?

I say that but I agree with what you said about folding now

I actually think you should have taken the check on the flop...doubt that even if your straight hits anyone is gonna put you on 8-10 after a pre flop 3 bet. With 4 players in its very likely that one of the 1st two checks was hoping for a bet to raise, so m taking the freebie

WARNING: Rant ahead

Dude.....what....the......eff??

1) You're using the forums wrong. The above quote is basically you just begging the forum to agree with you. Essentially, you're inserting a "gut feeling" and trying to pass it off as a reliable read. And.....even if your gut feeling is accurate....try translating it into something that relates to poker. "Making a stand" really means "abnormally low fold equity"

2) Fold. Why is this even a question? What in the world possessed you to put enough extra thought into this hand to want to type it into a computer? You just got check raised in a 4 way pot and you have ten-high. The whole point to playing aggressively like you are is to get people to fold better hands. It also forces them to reveal their bigger hands earlier in the hand, allowing you to fold correctly and robbing them of value. If the prospect of a $1800 pot is enticing enough for you to throw out your whole strategy and get it in here......I think you have a gambling problem.

3) Listen to YOURSELF. You posted, and then added a second post about how you're min-3 balling all night and playing deep pots heads up with tons of success. You also added that no one is adjusting, and its working. So.....given that......does it make sense to serve up a 65% shot at your whole stack to an opponent you feel you can outplay later?

usually when they do this, yes they ARE making a stand, but it's because he is trying to say "I have a good hand. So stop trying to bluff me off of it. I'm not going anywhere".

I think it is much less a bluff and much more for value. I don't think he would fold it to a jam anyway.

Against 1 or 2 villains, sure I c-bet, but against 3 villains in this spot, I gladly just take the draw and let the flop check through.

Odds are good that if we bink on turn we can get super juicy value out of a ton of TPGK or two pair combos and if we are really lucky we can prison rape a slow played set

Another reason I like letting the flop check through is because if we miss on the turn, we give ourselves great implied odds to call most turn bets.

In general, I like c-bets when we can retain the initiative, take down a decent sized pot, and have an okay board texture (and image) in which we should have fold equity. Against 1 or 2 villains I'm c-betting like 90% of the time. But against 3 villains, I cut my c-betting percentage down to like 40%. Another factor that impacts my c-betting is whether or not I'm drawing to the potential nuts in a situation where if I hit, I can get super juicy value from lessor hands that will feel compelled to call however if I c-bet, I may push out those potential hands...

So with all that said, I like letting this flop check through more than I like c-betting it. The tipping point for me is 3 villains instead of 2 villains or less.

Based on your very generic description of Villain, I can't imagine how you could possibly have a good enough read to make this assessment. I'm sure there are subtleties about your observations that are hard to convey here, but it comes off as wish-ranging.
It was 3bet already when action got to him. JJ is so slam-dunk-obviously in his range. I mean, yes, a thinking Villain should realize your 3b range is super wide and crushed by JJ, but most LLSNL Villains simply are not going to 4b JJ ever.