Im gunna try to dumb this down, and at the same time see if I get what you are saying willyoman.

The number of players at the table (6 or 9) doesnt matter, because when it comes V's turn to act, there are the same number of players left as all have folded before V and H is in the bb.

The most important assumption here is that V is like 95 % of llsnl players who only raises a certain range (and is not widened because the table is short). If so, then the raise should be treated no differently than if 3, 4, 5, or 6 players have folded before V. Subsequently, AT remains a crappy hand to be played from the BB.

It's not about the odds of someone having a big hand decreases when there are less hands being dealt, it's the fact that when someone DID raise, a big hand was indeed dealt.

Were not playing $25/50 6max online where people are isolating Limpers in the CO wide

This is lol live poker. People don't open a range even from the CO over a limper that we can profitably call with OOP

Even if they are, calling sucks still unless they're playing super straight up post flop

Without reads, I fold. If I have a read that he's opening wide, then its a good spot to 3bet

this is lazy. is he 21? 71? white? black? asian? hoodie? beats? drinking red bull? alcohol? coffee? watching an iPad?

Based on preflop action villain is in his mid 20s, black or asian a large percentage of the time, and likely watching an iPad.

No further reads at this time.

As for postflop. C/c evaluate turn?

Not defending a10 in a 6 handed game is ridiculous. I'm not sure I understand the argument of 9 players being identical to 6. If that's the case we can say 9 handed is equivalent to heads up?? I'm honestly just confused by the statement ..CO raising range only being AJ+ is a joke,the hands people raise live are so wide.

am I missing the sarcasm?

A lot of silly responses ITT. ATo in a vacuum is not a particularly strong hand and has a lot of RIO associated with it. However, we need to know a lot more about opener before dismissing this hand completely. A few things I would want to consider:

1) Is opener ISO-ing the fish a lot?
2) Does the opener's range widen when the games get shorthanded? Or do you have enough history to even know?

No one has hit on this directly (I don't think) but generally live players opening ranges do not widen considerably when short handed. Live players tend not to adjust well at all to shorthanded play. They will continue to play nutted ranges and most likely fit or fold post flop. If this is your villain ATo should (mostly) be a trivial fold pre.

If, however, he is widening or is extremely LAG a flat or a 3b might be the best play. If you go this route, realize that being out of position is going to suck big time with this hand and he is going to make your life hell.

OOps others have effectively argued the same...nvm

6-handed vs 9-handed argument:

Assumption: range of players don't change - same calling range and same opening range (inelastic range).

Applicability to actual game condition:

-Hero opens UTG with xx, odds of someone calling in a 6-handed table is lower than a 9-handed table.
-Frequency of someone opening pot is lower in 6-handed table than 9-handed table.
-Frequency of 3bet is lower, but when it happens, condition remains the same whether it's 6-handed or 9-handed.

*Last one is a difficult concept to grasp for those that are confused by 6-handed vs 9-handed where players have inelastic range.

RP, focus on the OP.

We're discussing a hand where OP is the BB in a live no limit cash game.

He is facing a raise from CO and opts to call from the BB.

Please explain to me how these are different (live, no limit, same player pool):
1. 9-handed table, 5 folds, villain raises, Hero has ATo in BB. Hero...?
2. 6-handed table, 2 folds, villain raises, Hero has ATo in BB. Hero...?
3. 4-handed table, villain raises first to act, Hero has ATo in BB. Hero...?

They are exactly the same scenario.

I did explain it pretty concisely.

See my example #3.

Let's try this another way, where we show hero calling, as in the OP.

RP to quote the below in a post and explain the differences:

Base Case (9-Handed)
1. 9-handed table, 5 folds, villain raises, Hero has ATo in BB. Hero calls.

Case 2 (6-Handed)
2. 6-handed table, 2 folds, villain raises, Hero has ATo in BB. Hero calls.

[RP explains the differences here]

Case 3 (4-Handed)
3. 4-handed table, villain raises first to act, Hero has ATo in BB. Hero calls.

[RP explains the differences here]

I think one of the reasons from a fish perspective is that the shorter a game gets the more the blinds come around chewing through their stack and thus the looser (wider ranges) they start to play simply to combat this phenomena...

Willyloman is definitely correct as to how probability works (although I imagine that the card removal effects from the folds become nontrivial as the number of assumed folds increases). This is only different from a 9-handed CO vs. BB situation after the the first few players folded if the fact that we're shorthanded causes CO to open with a wider range, which is very possible but unfortunately we lack sufficient reads to be sure of. And as others have mentioned, I wouldn't just assume an unknown live player is going to be opening up their range and stealing wide until I witness a reason to. Until a read like that is established, this is a fold, and I would have told you the same thing back when I was playing microstakes 6max (which at the time played very similarly to shorthanded LLSNL).

And even once that read is established, I'd still be hesitant to flat too many marginal hands out of the blinds. It's okay if you're really good at playing OOP or have a significant skill edge on your opponent (unfortunately the players who open up their stealing ranges are usually fairly competent), or else your small equity edge won't be enough to overcome the positional disadvantage and make a call +EV. I'd much rather adjust by 3-bet bluffing frequently than by flatting often in hopes of outplaying your opponent from OOP.

But now that we're here, I think this is a c/c; I don't see much reason to bet and not give him a chance to c-bet with air, and a c/r would be overplaying your hand and blowing the limper out of the pot unnecessarily.

That's not fish wisdom... that's good thinking.

Poker is a battle for the blinds (I read that somewhere once).

At shorter tables, that battle is more pronounced.

Yeah Sklansky said poker is a battle for the blinds.

Perhaps online amongst toughest games, but certainly not in LLSNL.

Good memory.

Without blinds in would be theoretically incorrect to raise anything except aces. Common knowledge bro, read the theory of poker.

Seems like a 3bet or fold pre, I'd rather 3bet

Not sure if i just got trolled.... This thread quickly became ridiculous, semantic ridden, and kind of a pointless exercise in futility dont ya think..

It's turned into a bunch of full ring guys thinking 6 handed is the same game. It's not, even if our villains don't adjust we make our profit by adjusting to the game.

You have no idea what anyone but you is saying...gl to you

Yes he did

Pretty much this

So how does that apply in any way to LLSNL....bro?

Way more of a 3b pf than a fold imo