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Old 08-21-2017, 03:16 PM   #1
D_Lonnigan
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Diamond 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Hero: $1300
Villain: covers

Notes: Original raiser is a huge fish. Huge. So my preflop call is based on playing pots with him in position.

Blinds 2/5

UTG fold, UTG +1 limps $5, fold, Fish raises to $20, MP calls $20 (he didn't look at his cards, **** you not), Hero calls $20, fold, fold, fold, Villain (BB) calls $20, UTG +1 calls $20

Pot: $102

Flop: K 67
Villain (BB) checks, UTG +1 checks, Fish checks, MP checks, Hero bets $70.
Villain (BB) calls $70, all others fold.

Pot: $242
Turn: 4
Villain checks, Hero bets $145, Villain calls

Pot: $532
River: 5
Villain checks, HERO bets $350

I need a line check here. I am not posting what I hold, I am hoping for comments on each street and both my range and opponents range.

Thanks.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:24 PM   #2
Eholeing
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

We can't tell you if it's good if we don't know what you have, I'll say if you've got a8hh it's probably pretty good
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:24 PM   #3
D_Lonnigan
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

9c 10d
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:38 PM   #4
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

No, no..no! .., You don't need to do that in order to make money in this game. There's many other easy ways to grind an income playing cards.

I would say that even if villain didn't look at his cards you still need at least one big card value.(AXs, KXs) I would consider this the minimum. Or some medium pair. Else, I would pretend I drop my cards on the floor and they're dead ...haha. Especially with four dudes in the pot your T9o doesn't plays that well.

Who told you to do that? .. Which school you have been to?

Last edited by outdonked; 08-21-2017 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:49 PM   #5
Playbig2000
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

fold pre
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:56 PM   #6
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

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Originally Posted by outdonked View Post
No, no..no! .., You don't need to do that in order to make money in this game. There's many other easy ways to grind an income playing cards.

I would say that even if villain didn't look at his cards you still need at least one big card value.(AXs, KXs) I would consider this the minimum. Or some medium pair. Else, I would pretend I drop my cards on the floor and they're dead ...haha. Especially with four dudes in the pot your T9o doesn't plays that well.

Who told you to do that? .. Which school you have been to?
lol pretty much this
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Old 08-21-2017, 04:12 PM   #7
Jarretman
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Call pre is fine if you're OTB and the rest of the table is deep

Flop as played why are you betting? You think given your descriptions of villains you have any fold equity? Check flop.

Turn as played check.

River as played looks fine. Maybe bet a bit bigger.
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Old 08-21-2017, 04:26 PM   #8
D_Lonnigan
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

My thought process on the flop bet was to rep a range of Kx, sets, and 2 pair.

If I had been called by the original raiser, I would have slowed down on the turn. But being called by the BB and the rest folded I continued with aggression.

In my mind BB's range includes flush draws, weak Kx, and straight draws. I think we can eliminate 2 pair and sets from him when he doesn't raise with 3 players behind him.
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Old 08-21-2017, 05:30 PM   #9
aross76
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Do you think V will fold K9-KQ? will he fold any 8 or any 3?
If you think V has one of the hands that beats you, flush or straight, then why bet river he is def not folding either straight or flush.
and hands less than top pair should have folded OTT

There is a thin range of hands that V can fold OTR, K9 and KT come to mind but not much else.
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Old 08-21-2017, 09:26 PM   #10
Shai Hulud
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Vs range is mostly Kx and straight + flush draws. The straight and flush draws got there. If he's sane he's folding anything weaker than a straight. But who knows if he's sane?

I'm assuming you're bluffing here as that's what barreling connotes in my mind. Would help if I knew what you had. I understand you not wanting to post it but it's a ****load of work to do a street by street range analysis for both you and villain.

And you have any reads on V? Huge fish is really vague. He a station? Weak tight?

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Old 08-21-2017, 09:57 PM   #11
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Terrible.
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Old 08-22-2017, 12:18 AM   #12
BROKEinCOLLEGElol
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Ok so this board absolutely murders our opponent's range. Check/fold. Why tripple barrel a bluff with virtually no equity against a villain who isn't the huge, HUGE fish at the table?
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:01 AM   #13
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Lonnigan View Post
Hero: $1300
Villain: covers

Notes: Original raiser is a huge fish. Huge. So my preflop call is based on playing pots with him in position.

Blinds 2/5

UTG fold, UTG +1 limps $5, fold, Fish raises to $20, MP calls $20 (he didn't look at his cards, **** you not), Hero calls $20, fold, fold, fold, Villain (BB) calls $20, UTG +1 calls $20

Pot: $102

Flop: K 67
Villain (BB) checks, UTG +1 checks, Fish checks, MP checks, Hero bets $70.
Villain (BB) calls $70, all others fold.

Pot: $242
Turn: 4
Villain checks, Hero bets $145, Villain calls

Pot: $532
River: 5
Villain checks, HERO bets $350

I need a line check here. I am not posting what I hold, I am hoping for comments on each street and both my range and opponents range.

Thanks.
you are five way on the flop, and its wet, just check your gutshot. Bluffing 5 ways is nonsense, it gets thru 0%. Not that id suggest bluffing here, but IF you wanted to run this is how you run it:

Flop, bet 25% of pot (so $25). big hands will raise you, so they cap their range, small hands and draws will call. On blank turns (pot $150) overbet the pot to force all the draws and weak made hands in their range to fold. Bet about $200+ on turn, and decet chance you will fold 100% of their remaining range.

Your turn bet is egregiously small vs their drawing range. River all their draws got there and now you wanna rep the flush? if anything you should be betting blank rivers. Granted he did check. I mean, the river bet might actually be marginally EV+, but flop and turn bet were very EV- to set it up.

Also fold pre.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:23 AM   #14
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Flop bet is enormous spew, you might salvage a little back later but even the turn continuation is very optimistic, checking the turn and bluffing rivers should be much more cost efficient especially since your pre-flop call should mostly eliminate you having top set, aa, tptk

Last edited by monikrazy; 08-22-2017 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:41 AM   #15
D_Lonnigan
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomark View Post
you are five way on the flop, and its wet, just check your gutshot. Bluffing 5 ways is nonsense, it gets thru 0%. Not that id suggest bluffing here, but IF you wanted to run this is how you run it:

Flop, bet 25% of pot (so $25). big hands will raise you, so they cap their range, small hands and draws will call. On blank turns (pot $150) overbet the pot to force all the draws and weak made hands in their range to fold. Bet about $200+ on turn, and decet chance you will fold 100% of their remaining range.

Your turn bet is egregiously small vs their drawing range. River all their draws got there and now you wanna rep the flush? if anything you should be betting blank rivers. Granted he did check. I mean, the river bet might actually be marginally EV+, but flop and turn bet were very EV- to set it up.

Also fold pre.
Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for. Appreciate your thoughts.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:29 AM   #16
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

I would not do this in this situation. 9To just isn't a hand I want to play from MP with a raise vs. this table of limper and callers, no matter how fishy pre-flop raiser is. Honestly, I'd rather not look at my cards and call blind and play based on feel of the other players, but I would only do that with better position at a table where I know everyone well. (And, yes, I do it.)

Too many players in the hand for a flop bet, but it got you heads up. I guess once you are here, the betting is OK, but we really need some reads on BB. He did look at his cards. Is he sticky? Will he fold on river w/o a flush? Anything?
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:28 AM   #17
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Way to many bluffs in your range, if you are doing this with 910o. As 89o is 16 combos and 45 is another 16 combos.

Just don't have enough value hands t I not be over bluffing. Plus your up against a fish, who likely is over calling. And we should make adjustment of having less bluffs and more value.

Check back flop, and take free card. May even get 2 free cards.

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Old 08-22-2017, 10:30 AM   #18
mikko
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Also fold pre. You can call super wide here, but no need to add 910o, just doesn't have much playability.

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Old 08-22-2017, 11:17 AM   #19
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Terrible all around
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:04 PM   #20
Shai Hulud
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

I missed where you disclosed your hand in my previous post.

Fold pre. If you were HU maybe call with the fish but you're not.

Agree with Tomark. Check/fold your gutshot 5-ways. I'd only bet a draw here if it's super strong like T9 or AQ.

The turn is not that scary so I probably give up but if you do bluff you gotta bet more.

River bet very dependent on whether BB is sane enough to fold Kx and 3x.
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:12 PM   #21
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Very ambitious, depending on game flow and dynamics I think preflop is extremely questionable, flop bet very spew, but given how hand played out I like your turn river bet and sizing.

Given the exact run out I think you're good here unless you ran into a flush or you got unlucky and he had an 8 in his hand

With that being said you could definitely find better spots vs the "huge fish". When theres players like this in my game from past experience tight is right. Sometimes when they call with K rag or middle pair its really depressing
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:39 PM   #22
bigcountry85
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

The river seems very spewy and overall the hand seemed ill planned. Most conceivable draws got there by the river and villain has alot of reasons to plan a c/r with the runout. If you want to play in position with the fish, why not try and iso preflop?

Regardless of wanting to keep your hand in the dark initially, you should at minimum include how the table perceives you and any reads on the villain. Those pieces of information would help inform more insightful feedback.
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:54 AM   #23
D_Lonnigan
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Table perceives me as fairly tight but not a super nit. Villain is an unknown unfortunately. I only played 2 orbits with him and nothing out of the ordinary was shown.

I understand the overall play was terrible. I get it. But like I said, I can rep a variety of Kx hands, straight and flush draws, 2 pair and sets. It's not like my range is capped here.

One of my questions is what do we do on the river. His range consists of Kx hands and flush draws. I guess maybe straight draws would continue on the turn if they picked up a heart draw. My thought was, what can he call with? If he has the straight, he is going to bet the river as I would never bet a K on that river card so he only gets value by betting. So that leaves him with Kx hands. Can I get Kx hands to fold was the question in my head and does my range include straights on the river that can bet for value. I thought it did.

Another question I have is on the river when we brick do we fire anyway? We obv can't win with 10 high. Or do we just give up and check?
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Old 08-23-2017, 03:09 AM   #24
Shai Hulud
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Lonnigan View Post
Table perceives me as fairly tight but not a super nit. Villain is an unknown unfortunately. I only played 2 orbits with him and nothing out of the ordinary was shown.

I understand the overall play was terrible. I get it. But like I said, I can rep a variety of Kx hands, straight and flush draws, 2 pair and sets. It's not like my range is capped here.

One of my questions is what do we do on the river. His range consists of Kx hands and flush draws. I guess maybe straight draws would continue on the turn if they picked up a heart draw. My thought was, what can he call with? If he has the straight, he is going to bet the river as I would never bet a K on that river card so he only gets value by betting. So that leaves him with Kx hands. Can I get Kx hands to fold was the question in my head and does my range include straights on the river that can bet for value. I thought it did.
I gave villain this range OTR. It consists of a variety of flushes, straights, straight draws, Kx, 2p, and sets. There are 120/990 combos:

77-66,AKs,K2s+,T8s+,98s,86s+,75s+,64s+,54s,AhQh,AhJh, QhJh,AhTh,QhTh,JhTh,Ah9h,Qh9h,Jh9h,Ah8h,Qh8h,Jh8h, Ah7h,Qh7h,Jh7h,Th7h,9h7h,Ah6h,Qh6h,Th6h,9h6h,Ah5h, Qh5h,9h5h,8h5h,Ah4h,Ah3h,Ah2h,AKo,K9o+

Of the 120 combos, the composition is

Kx: 51 combos
2p: 21 combos
set: 6 combos
straight: 14 combos
flush: 19 combos
straight flush: 8 combos
nothing: 1 combo (T9)

So he has 42.5% one-pair KX hands, 17.5% 2-pair, 5% sets, 11.67% straights, 15.83% flushes, and 6.66% straight flushes.

He has 48 combos of sets or better and 72 combos 2p/KX, for a breakdown of 40%/60% strong/weak hands on this board, and possibly it's even worse than that for V as sets should not really be considered strong on this board.

So he has 34.16% straights/flushes/straight-flushes. If we expect him to fold anything worse (maybe sets, maybe not) then it's an easy bluff. If we expect him to get sticky with sets and 2 pair, now he's calling maybe 57.5% of the time--which is still fine with our sizing.

There's only a problem if he gets sticky with KX. So...I think you should bet the river if you think villain is sane and won't call with just a K. It really comes down to that. If he's a lunatic calling station who doesn't realize what a terrible board this is for KTo, give it up. But against sane opponents I'm firing the river.

I wouldn't assume he doesn't have straights in his range though just because he checked. Lots of villains will see the heart and just check their straights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Lonnigan View Post
Another question I have is on the river when we brick do we fire anyway? We obv can't win with 10 high. Or do we just give up and check?
But you did brick the river. Do you mean what if it's a meaningless card like the 2? Well now the previous ranges are kind of flipped. I'm not going to recount the combos as they change with the river card but now he's going to fold all his straight and flush draws (which he has slightly more now since the third heart removes some of the draws) and possibly weak KX and call everything else Since there are so many draws on this board I'd bluff the river anyway. The good thing about this situation is you can bluff much less if the villain is straightforward. Betting $175 might be enough to get him to fold his busted draws as it looks like a thin value bet from something like KQ. And in that case it's totally fine if the draws are only 25-30% of his range, as with this sizing we only need him to fold 22% of the time. And he may even fold some weak TP hands.

Alternatively you could overbet the pot on a blank and possibly get him to fold everything weaker than (and maybe including) TPTK, which is the great majority of his range.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:59 AM   #25
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 NL 3 Barrel Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Lonnigan View Post
Another question I have is on the river when we brick do we fire anyway? We obv can't win with 10 high. Or do we just give up and check?
I'm OK with the river bet (not necessarily pre-flop and flop) now that you are here. It would help to know a bit about our Villain, though. That is key here. The only problem I see is that his hand looks like a weakish K or a weak flush, and some people just don't fold once they get to the river. I hope he folded.
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