did i completely overplay this?

at a casino, 10 handed, i'm BB, J-10 off, image is fairly tight
Villain 1 is UTG, sat down 10-20 minutes ago and raises often preflop
Villain 2 is hi-jack or hi-jack +1, limps basically all hands, played for about 2-3 hours with him

Villain 1 makes it $20 to go, roughly $500 behind
Villain 2 calls, roughly $450 behind
Villain 3 calls, roughly $250 behind
for $15, i'm getting 4 to 1, i can make $65, so i call too, roughly $325 behind

flop
A-Q-6 - rainbow

Hero - check
Villain 1 - bets $35
Villain 2 calls
Villain 3 folds
i've got 4 outs, as i assume a J or 10 will not win me the hand
$35 to win $150, about 4.x to 1, i was looking for 5 to 1 range, but Villain 3 didnt call

Turn
8 , 4 card rainbow, no flush draws, my straight is the nuts if it hits

Hero - check
Villain 1 - check
Villain 2 - bet $90
Hero - 8 outs, roughly 16% chance, $275 for $90 odds are way off, i honestly think Villain 1 will call, so it's $365 for $90, plus the implied odds of hitting a 9 or a K and getting called for the $175 i have left (which i dont think anyone can put me on J10) - i call
Villain 1 - fold

River
K

Hero - AI $175
Villain 2 - call AKoff

was that a really bad play?
thanks

On the turn, even taking into account implied odds of getting called everytime you hit.

That makes it 275+175 = 450/90, so 5:1. So you would need 16.6% chance to win on the turn assuming you always get called when you hit. So we can already see that we don't have those odds.

Now if you account for the fact that sometimes when you jam river when you hit, V2 will fold, and sometimes when you call the turn bet, V1 will come back over the top and raise. Turn has to be a fold.

thanks, i did feel like i overplayed it a bit, but i wanted a confirmation

but i guess coupling overplaying J10o and underplaying AK (should have repopped pre-flop late position to a consistent raiser IMO) was going to turn into a big hit for one of us...

I think you have higher on the turn than 16%, if he has precisely AK every time then you are limited to that, but he doesn't. He has a range of hands.

As Griffey said, he's not stacking off on every river, so it's still a bad call.

Additionally, this is not what is considered "overplaying" a hand. An example of overplaying is treating A4o as the nuts on AQJccc and checkraising and betting the whole way.

You played the hand passively when behind, and then you played it fast when you hit.

By the way, this isn't a mid stakes level question. This is more of a basic small stakes or lower Q. You'll probably find more responses that will help you out at the level which your game is at.

Also, don't discuss strategy at the table. If people criticize your play, make note of the hand and post it here later and tell the table coach you Had The Feels.

I think its a pretty standard play. Your hand improves on the turn, so why fold now?

Straights beat lots of other hands and in my experience, lots of live players have trouble folding top pair (aces).

NH OP

I think preflop is a fold oop unless you have very strong reads on the other players. With a raise UTG your often in a terrible situation since your oop and usually your hand is dominated. Flop is a fold - in position I like the call- oop its a fold. Turn is a fold - you don't have the implied odds.

wat

I think it was played badly....

PF
1st I would never play 10J off oop! This is giving away your money and the kind of players that I'm looking for.

2nd I would not call the flop cbet oop for the following reasons...
1.you are out of position! It is harder to get ai when oop when you hit
2.your not getting GOOD implied odds, the stacks would have to be at least 150bb deep for me to play.

Flop
1.Fold the flop
2.You never had a plan if you missed the turn. If I call here when the stacks are deep
I have a plan for the turn depending what card comes.

Turn card
Bingo! Just about one of the best cards you can possibly hit without hitting your straight!
I Check raise AI on the turn.
They fold very often against me because...
I play tight aggressive they give me a lot of respect
The only hands they call with is a set or 2 pair, we know he has an ace we just don't know how strong. If they call we still have outs.

fold pre. you aren't deep enough.

top off. play with a full stack then you can start playing hands like this.

i'd have probably talked myself into calling the turn, too. hate it when i pick up more outs and talk myself into calling.

as for him misplaying AK, sometimes i'd call in his spot against someone who is raising a lot if i feel like he is going to overcommit post flop.

Fold pre, turn is near breakeven with implied odds, fold flop, as played on turn I would call but I like high variance spots too.

good lord wall of text

grunching here

This hand is downright terrible. Terrible. This reads like exactly how others make money off of bad players, because bad players chase down hands like this.

Pre is bad, that's a RIO hand overall and you're OOP. You're just not deep enough to chase this hand.

Calling the flop is poor given your stack. Stop chasing gutterball draws with a short stack.

Turn is really close either way since you're getting about 6:1 in implied odds

River is just standard but you should never have been here.

This hand is a luckbox, like 97% of the time you just made a donation preflop and most of the time the flop call is a donation

J10 isn't a RIO hand at all. It's just the type of hand you need to win big pots. Having said that, you need to buy in full always for this reason!

If u have a deepstack this is a call all day. Witha gutshot ur implied odds are ridiculous...

In short. A deeper stack =more implied odds = call.

When playing short stacked u have to focus on flopping made hands and getting it in on the flop or turn.

Sitting at only 20 times the raise (since he only has 65 bb) calling from the BB in a 4 way pot, JTo is most certainly a -EV call pre.

It is most definitely a RIO hand vs the original raiser's range as well.

I mean I guess it is if u are playing for pairs it's RIO.. But I'd hope we wouldn't exactly be trying to flop TPNK or MPNK when we call

This is a pretty clear fold preflop. You're oop and are in a severe RIO spot. Even deepstack this is in position only type of hand. Also you should definitely fold otf as chasing these gutters is the definition of a station. And we're really just fabricating a reason to call ott even though your hand "improved" and it isn't likely he is stacking off otr every time which is what you need to happen to even think of calling. There are plenty of opportunities to play SC(tho this isn't even sooooooted, that doesn't make it a call pre either, just less bad, which is still bad) that you don't need to add this one into your oop calling-a-raise range. Fold pre and move on next hand.

AP you should have c/r jammed the turn if you were going to play at all, this is about as stationy luck box as it gets. You'd at least get partial credit if you were aggressive and gave yourself some FE.

You're calling pre oop to flop a joint/trips/FH????? That's not so good either as you're not getting the odds for that. Also you have to get paid when you hit and most flops that flop good for you won't give your villain much to stack off on and most flops that are good for you and your opponent, is likely better for your opponent than you. Just bad options for this situation which make it a fold except for this results oriented case.