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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 01-24-2016, 11:46 AM   #26
ATsai
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

Just because I play a lot of 5/10, 10/20, and bigger games... Doesn't mean that I am out of touch with how 2/5 or 5/5 plays.

I definitely play smaller games when I am at casino while I wait for a 5/10 or 10/20 seat. Last year, when a certain whale was playing a ton of $5 blind games...I also played a ton of $5 blind games too. Lastly, when an out of town student whose primary game is $5 blind game comes to LA, I like to play with my student at 5/5 NL to evaluate his/her game and show him or her how I crush the table

Considering that I have probably more lifetime volume at live 2/5, 3/5, and 5/5 than pretty much all the posters here...I don't see why people should criticize my advice as: "That works in higher level games where FE is higher but not in my LLSNL games."

Hint: I am much more likely to play loose in live 2/5 NL than live 5/10 NL or live 10/20 NL. Why? The vast majority of guys 2/5 NL have huge poker leaks while the player pools at the bigger games hsve smaller poker leaks. You will typically see me tighten up more in the bigger games because bigger games have some decent/good pros whereas live 2/5 NL games have almost no good pros.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:50 AM   #27
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

When you guys post, I don't say stuff like... Bah this guy only plays 1/2 NL...what does he know about proper 2/5 strategy? That is just insane to post in the LLSNL strat forum.

Please don't be lame and post similar dumb criticisms about how I play bigger than 2/5 and have no idea about how 2/5 plays.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:29 PM   #28
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

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Originally Posted by ATsai View Post
When you guys post, I don't say stuff like... Bah this guy only plays 1/2 NL...what does he know about proper 2/5 strategy? That is just insane to post in the LLSNL strat forum.

Please don't be lame and post similar dumb criticisms about how I play bigger than 2/5 and have no idea about how 2/5 plays.
Dude, you make a good point about tightening up in bigger games, and it makes sense that you'd loosen up in a red chip game because you have a significant edge. So you're cutting your WR by not playing more hands.

But I don't think anybody is criticizing you or attacking your viewpoint that you're out of touch with LLSNL games. People in the know are aware of your background. I think Garick makes a good point: in LLSNL games where FE isn't as prevalent and stacks are generally more shallow, I think the case can be made where ditching SC's up front would be optimal. Of course, live reads should adjust that strategy.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:45 PM   #29
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say "ignore this guy." I was just trying to say that 1) Your edge over the table is probably more significant than most ITF and 2) you can use that edge to generate FE, which is a pretty rare thing to see in a lot of LLSNL games. As this is 2/5, it's likey not the "get lots of fat value and then show them the best hand" game that a lot of off-market $1/2 is, but I suspect that you have more opportunities to use FE than most in this forum. That's all.

Frankly, I think your willingness to play OOP presumes a greater edge over the table than most player ITF have, but that's not a slam.
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Old 01-24-2016, 03:07 PM   #30
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

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Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
Dude, you make a good point about tightening up in bigger games, and it makes sense that you'd loosen up in a red chip game because you have a significant edge. So you're cutting your WR by not playing more hands.

But I don't think anybody is criticizing you or attacking your viewpoint that you're out of touch with LLSNL games. People in the know are aware of your background. I think Garick makes a good point: in LLSNL games where FE isn't as prevalent and stacks are generally more shallow, I think the case can be made where ditching SC's up front would be optimal. Of course, live reads should adjust that strategy.

Thoughts?
Very good points. As long as you are taking live reads and other things into account instead joining the "fold SCs pre always unless you are in HJ/CO/BTN" religion, you are right to question whether preflop is optimal.
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Old 01-24-2016, 07:05 PM   #31
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

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$2/$5 live game. I have $900 and limp in EP with 7d5d. Questionable but the table is pretty tame. 5 players see the flop

Flop comes QdTd2d. I bet $20, old guy ($300) calls and then a 19 year old female ($900) who is surprisingly good raises to $70.

What would you do here? Reraise? Call and wait for a non diamond turn to get nasty?
I have no idea what reads we can get from 'old guy' and 'surprisingly good female'. I would reraise. You're deep enough to reraise/fold if both villains come over the top and you think you're against a better flush. Female villain could easily be making a semibluff squeeze with any single diamond broadway hands. I would not call and wait because you're oop. What's the turn plan, check? You risk non-diamond turns checking through and letting higher diamond hands see two cards. Reraise to about $150-$200.
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Old 01-24-2016, 08:50 PM   #32
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

Another thread where a bunch of people jump on OOP telling him not to play suited 1 gappers or connectors. I think PF is okay, I like opening better than limping.

As played, I would call the raise, c/r any non-diamond on turn, and jam any non-diamond on river if she calls turn CR. If she checks behind turn, value bet any non-diamond on river
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:04 PM   #33
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

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Another thread where a bunch of people jump on OOP telling him not to play suited 1 gappers or connectors. I think PF is okay, I like opening better than limping.

As played, I would call the raise, c/r any non-diamond on turn, and jam any non-diamond on river if she calls turn CR. If she checks behind turn, value bet any non-diamond on river
That was exactly my plan, but what do you do when the 4th diamonds hits the turn like it did here? I really thought the old guy was the one with the big diamond so I checked. He checked also which surprised me. Then she bet. At that point I think I have to fold. All I have is the 7d on a 4 flush board vs 2 players who could both have me beat.
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:06 PM   #34
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

check fold the fourth diamond
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:06 PM   #35
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

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Another thread where a bunch of people jump on OOP telling him not to play suited 1 gappers or connectors. I think PF is okay, I like opening better than limping.
Limping (or opening) in EP with a suited one-gapper 180BB deep is very different than calling an EP raise oop 110BB deep.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:38 PM   #36
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

I fold pre. Without huge glaring reason not too.

But there are alot of games where you can play a 20% range from EP. (Although it seems to be standard for you)

As played easy fold. Terrible idea for her to show the bluff. Although I am guessing she didn't realize it was a bluff.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:49 PM   #37
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

Agree pre-flop limping from EP w/57s is not good (I don't mind an occasional raise w/ these cards to help your metagame if you have observant opponents). As played, I think check-shoving a non-diamond, non-board pairing card is the right play. A diamond is a bet/fold. If board pairs, check and use live reads but probably a fold to a big bet.
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Old 01-25-2016, 03:20 PM   #38
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

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Although 75dd EP limp (Mike's target should have given some reads on his table to help us in determining the EV of limping EP with 75dd) could very well be bad, I think that people in this forum are somewhat too categorically nitty regarding playing SCs and SGs in EP. And posters in this forum are way too categorically nitty about flatting SCs from blinds versus PFR + 1 or more cold calls ahead of them.
Agree with this all
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:05 PM   #39
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

Here is the first part of my original post

"$2/$5 live game. I have $900 and limp in EP with 7d5d. Questionable but the table is pretty tame. "

What I meant by that was that I was able to open limp with a variety of hands at this table because the guys behind me were almost never raising preflop. That was my read on the table.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:14 PM   #40
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Here is the first part of my original post

"$2/$5 live game. I have $900 and limp in EP with 7d5d. Questionable but the table is pretty tame. "

What I meant by that was that I was able to open limp with a variety of hands at this table because the guys behind me were almost never raising preflop. That was my read on the table.
So did you have reads on the players post-flop? Or were you just hoping to flop gin? What was your strategy for the flop, turn, and river? Did you have a plan based on who called you OTF? Did you know what kinds of boards you could barrel?
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Old 01-26-2016, 09:06 AM   #41
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

I wouldnt say my reads were THAT strong. Basically the players are very passive. They rarely raise preflop, they never bluff, and they wont do things like raise the flop with TP, so they are very predictable and its easy to know where I am in the hand. Well, other than the girl who beat me in the hand.
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:20 PM   #42
mikko
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

To make this correct. You still need better reasons than, you won't get raised pre.

-will you get 4 bets of value if you flop trips, or 2 pair?

-will they make bet sizing mistakes giving you great odds on draws

-will they miss value bets when we flop 2nd best hand

-will we have bluffing opportunities post flop?

-can we steal pots postflop?

Need a better plan, than "Hit Gin get paid"...limping to often from EP will put you in alot of tough spots
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:38 PM   #43
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Re: $2/$5 live flopped flush

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I just posted results and she actually had exactly a 6 high flush


And because you were OOP, the hand was that much harder to play, and you were bested, by someone who had position.
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