New table, first orbit. Looks like a bunch of older rec players, drinking having a goodtime, playing multiway pots, don't recognize any as regs.

EP (500) opens for $15. MP (2000) calls, MP (400) calls, CO (500) calls

Hero in BB (600) is dealt 99 Hero ? Usually, I am raising here. I elect to call because it's a new table and from what I've seen, I will get four callers if I raise to $75 and be playing a huge pot OOP. I thought about raising to $115 which would likely either take it down or get it heads up. I'm not sure about this but I call. If you raise what's your sizing?

FLOP ($75) 6 5 4

Hero checks, EP bets $45, 3 callers. Theres ~ $255 in the pot. Hero has $585 behind. Hero? I think that the 3 who call behind the opener never have that strong of a range. Mostly draws and one pair type hands, and I can shove here for value. The only person I'm concerned about really is EP. I don't know if this flop hits his EP opening range.

If you're going to 3bet pre, it needs to be on the larger size as you'll be OOP and you want to get heads up. $100 or so seems about right, folding if EP 4bets. Flatting also has its merits.

Flop is probably just a fold. You have a marginal over pair on a wet flop multi way and OOP. Flatting is horrible, raising only gets called by hands that are beating us/have beaucoup equity (Ac7c, 65, 44, 87, QQ, catch my drift?), plus raising creates a huge pot where we are basically committed on every turn. We don't even love the 9c on the turn when we raise flop and get called.

Was your intention preflop to set mine?

Completely agree with this.

dont 3bet pre. until i have great reads on the players esp the pfr, sticking to 3beting QQ+ and AK is much much better. as played flop is a cear fold with ANY overpair except 77. even if you have best hand by the river youll likely be outdrawn with thjs many people

Yes, pretty much. Based on the action on the flop, however, I think we have the best hand often.

Is shoving out of the question? I think sets, combo draws will raise the flop open. Even if EP has a better over pair, which i think is unlikely based on his small preflop open, he can find a fold. If we do get called I think we're most likely flipping against naked flush draws and there's a lot of dead money in the pot.

There's no way I'm folding this flop with so much money in the pot. Pre is fine vs unknowns/new table and being oop. Call and let's see a turn

I'd normally raise PF, but not knowing the table, I'd call. OTF I'm folding.

My short answer is if your plan was to set mine, then stick with your plan and fold now.

Shoving is an option and may win you the pot a decent amount of the time, but is it profitable? My guess would be that it isn't due to the fact that it has to work a huge % of the time.

Another question: With which value hands would you c/shove for 2x pot on a 6c5c4d flop? Would you c/shove here with 87hh? 65dd? 5d5s?

The board is textured, yes, but you'll still only be repping a small number of combos when you move all in. Most of your range looks like semibluffs/total air. If you have a good reason to believe that these guys are scared money, then bluffing here is likely a good idea, but you've basically said you're readless thus far so you can't know how often you'll be called.

If there's no way you're folding the flop, what's your plan for the turn? What cards do you want to see? There are a ton of turn cards that will have us hating life, and this pot could get bloated awfully fast. And we only have one pair. We will be OOP against four other players. Seems like the best hope is that the turn and river are bricks, and then hope it's checked around. Not a great plan of attack. I think we have to think beyond the flop in this hand.

Given the insane price you're getting and that you're closing the action, I think you can profitably call the flop 'drawing' to a brick turn. If the turn is a 9 or an offsuit 2, 10, J, Q, or maybe K I would then just lead out for 2/3 pot or something preparing to call it off barring any crazy action.

In terms of overcards though how nitty is the game? Do any of the flatters ever have 10s or jacks? Can the EP player ever have two non club overcards?

The problem here is besides a deuce there aren't any truly brick cards because people could have flush draws with all the overs to a 9 in their range.

I think though if the villains are generally stationy and will draw with incorrect odds you should still bet/call on any over besides an ace (nut flush draws and suited aces with a pair I think make up a huge portion of everyone's flatting range), despite it being a pretty high variance play.

Grunch:

It may seem nitty but I fold here. EP (unless a total drooler) has something when he bets into the world on a super wet board. The bet sizing is a little weak so it could be button clicking with AK/AQ but even if we are ahead now, so many cards are bad for us that I'm okay with moving on.

If we were in position I probably take one off but OOP we will just be playing a guessing game against unknowns.

I don't hate a 3 bet pre, 45-60 is probably fine. Generally my first 3bet/cbet gets respect and this will set up Vs to call us lighter if we have the opportunity to 3 bet QQ+ within an hour or so. You say table is stationy pre, but have there been many 3 bets yet? It's not uncommon for a table to be very stationy with opens but then tighten up significantly to 3 bets.

As played I'm check folding flop and fine with getting a better feel for table dynamics. I don't hate the way we played it, but I don't think it's optimal.

I'd like to begin with: You and I seem to agree thus far.

I want to further drive home our shared idea that calling on the flop is bad by asking this:

Can anyone name a single turn card that is a brick?

This is spew.

This isn't nitty at all. It's wise

9d. And only bc 87 already flopped a straight. So 9 changes nothing.
Board pairing is probably also good for 99 here.
But your point is excellent. Just about the entire deck stinks for us.

I like keeping it small and set mining pre. Check folding flop feels like the optimal play now. No sense playing the guessing and hoping game with our hand here. Fold.

We are at a table of unknowns. Even if 3-betting were optimal in this spot (it's not), your sizing is rather small. You'd have to make it in the 80-90 range IMO

I'm fine with 3-betting from this spot once we have stronger reads. However, flatting pre is fine.

In my opinion this is an ugly "trap" spot. Passive table w/ 5 to see a flop for $15 the top and even bottom straight is within the callers range, not to mention all three sets and two pair combos as well as a few strong combo draws.

Even a naked FD like AcTc has a ton of equity vs your hand. The original raiser can have over pairs and sets as well. I don't think a raise even if you stuff it all in gets through here very often and the fact of the matter is your never doing great vs any calling range.

I know it sounds stupidly tight but I'm folding and cursing myself for not 3 betting preflop. 99 is almost impossible to play oop multi way. Pretty standard 3 bet after the whole table flats the $15 imo.

not having the 9c is another knock here to.

any 2 3 7 8 makes a straight. any overcard can pair villain up if he has a FD. any board pairing can give villain trips if they have pair+straight draw. literally the only brick is the 9d.
this is a clear fold. even more so in that villains make the dumbest slowplays

Nobody likes donking here? Sometimes we take it down right there if not, the actions of the players behind should give us a decent idea of their range.

Betting for information is blecch.

Let's imagine we donk and are raised by anybody in the field. Are we ahead? Is the villain raising with a draw or a combo draw? A hand that crushes us? Eh...who cares, we have an overpair! We call.

Turn comes (anything but the 9d). We presumably check. Villain fires. What do we do now?

We are either marginally ahead here and OOP or waaaaaay behind here. The entire deck sucks for us on the turn. Continuing on here is never going to be +EV.

We're still getting 5.5:1 on our call. I'm mostly looking at non club J, T, 5 and 4s to reevaluate the turn. Obviously if we drain the 9c or especially the 9d we're going to do good things in general as well.
This group of cards is fairly safe and represents close to a quarter of the deck on the turn. It sucks that we're going to be OOP and have so many tough decisions; but tough decisions don't necessarily mean bad decisions, and we don't have to win this hand very often to compensate for bad things happening.

To a lesser degree A-Q, 2, 8 and clubs are going to be representable for us as bluffs if the situation looks right. Let's say an 8h falls and everyone checks. How can we not lead a non club river?

I like a call and a cautious approach as we proceed.

We need to keep in mind that we still do have a hand with showdown value; even if it may be tough to realize, and also the most ability to represent, as we should have the widest calling range of anyone closing the action here.

I think I am folding. New table Zero reads. Nobody stuck so far.

Like others have said, I am guessing, by just calling you were set mining. We missed our set, fold and move on.

I would use this hand to gather information on what other villians are calling with for future hands.

ap I like the idea of donking for about 60

easy fold ..

OP could raise to 165 to push overpairs out of the hand (EP) .. But it`s a high variance play, where we have to know, that EP can`t call an overpair (in his mind) because of the same reasons we can`t call in this spot.