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2/5 - Line check 2 hands 2/5 - Line check 2 hands

09-18-2018 , 02:51 AM
I apologize in advance for this long rambling line check. I played a short (2:15) session and didn't think I found any tough spots. Made a few mistakes but nothing post worthy. Does this mean I'm not thinking enough or am I hearing all your voices in my head enough not to second guess as much? How many hands per hour do you normally want to re-visit after the session? Since I didn't think I struggled with any decisions I figured I'd just line check the two biggest pots I was in.

Hand 1 - Maybe 1:15 into the session.
V1 in seat 2 ($500). MAWG who is LAG but not super high VPIP. He's profiling players and knows everyone. From conversation I get that he's a reg who's downsizing from very wealthy to probably still pretty well off due to life roll issues. He's definitely played at least a good bit of 10/10, but is lamenting with another very solid reg who may be pro who's at the table and who I pretty much avoided. V1 is also still complaining about run bad from before I sat.

V2 in seat 3 ($1k+). OWG I'd say in between TAG and LAG. He calls wide pre with speculative hands but raises aggressively with top 5% hands. He'll fold the speculative hands to a 3! however. He's affectionately known as "Bully" as he was the first player during my session to 4! pre. He got V3 (next hand) to fold QQ and showed the table JJ to get the nickname.

Hero in seat 5 ($450) is TAG who's trying not to be nitty. As usual, table low VPIP but probably a higher PFR than some passives. Pretty much card dead until now. Took down a few pots with AJo and cbet, 88 and cbet, folded to one 3! as well.

OTTH: 1 or 2 limpers then V1 opens for $20 from the CO. V2 calls, Hero looks down at red Aces in the small blind and raises to $80. Folds back to V1 who pauses for only about 3 seconds and 4! to $250, V3 folds back to Hero. After the "Bully" hand V3 was commenting on how very few players have a 4! range that's wider than AA/KK. I made the mistake of chiming in and saying that every time I try to 4! I run into AA. V1, replies "just can't click it huh?". I say, nah "I gave up on it" and chuckle. Now that I've been 4! I'm trying to show some concern / weakness. I say "Didn't we just have this discussion? Did you find the 4! button?". V1 gives a pained smile and forced chuckle but doesn't respond. I conclude that given our history a 5! shove isn't guaranteed to get called even though my effective stack only has about $200 behind. I take another 10 seconds or so make a determined face and plop the $250 in. I then immediately check dark. I haven't used a dark check in probably a year but it seemed perfect here as V has to shove every flop and could fold some air if Hero donks it. How much air do you think this guy can have here?

Flop: (~$520 after rake) 8 5 2
V1 goes all in. I snap call.

Board runs out something like: 8 5 2 7 J

Was the flat, dark check too fancy? A weaker player at the table attempted to lecture me on how poorly I played the hand afterwards. Not 5 betting is spew and not donking flop is terrible. Thanks bud. Will I get flamed here as well?

Hand 2 - About 2 hours in. EP raise to $25, V2 ($1k+) calls, Hero ($900) makes it $75 OTB with JJ. V3 ($375) calls from the SB, V2 calls. As mentioned earlier V3 is a thinking Younger Guy. He bought about $500 and hasn't been very active. He's a reg but I'm not sure he's winning overall. I've seen him bust as often as I've seen him deep and it's rare that I see him head to the cage. He talks poker strat a lot but then proceeds to call too wide, which is what made the QQ fold all the more ironic. When he's barreling he's usually good but his win percentage goes way down when he gets sticky. He also has the attitude that he's better than most.

Flop: (~$245 after rake) J 6 3
Do I run good or what? Checks to Hero, who checks back.

Turn: ($245) J 6 3 Q
Checks to Hero again who bets $100. V3 calls, V2 folds.

River: ($445) J 6 3 Q 4
V3 checks, Hero asks to confirm how much V3 is playing. V3 says $200, Hero announces all in and puts out about $300. V3 talks through the hand a bit and contemplates putting me on "The Case QQ?". V3 tanks a bit longer then calls. Previous lecturer announces that I must have AA again. Thanks bud.

Any argument in betting flop here? Obviously I'd much rather V2 hit than V3. After the check on the flop if both Vs call I have a huge overbet left in my stack. V2 had not been trappy or passive though so I was sure checking and giving up the chance to play for stacks with V2 without someone raising me was better than risking folding out both Vs. Thought this hand was more standard but still open to alternate thoughts.

Flame away.
2/5 - Line check 2 hands Quote
09-18-2018 , 02:55 AM
Why do you put the board cards out with suits etc, but expect us to read ye old wall of text to discern your hand?
2/5 - Line check 2 hands Quote
09-18-2018 , 03:30 AM
Hand 1, dark check looks more suspicious and stronger than a regular check - dark checking to preflop aggressor is normal but when you have all ready put in half your stack it is not credible

Hand 2, I like a cbet on the flop here, but we don't risk much checking back, turn size seems too small
2/5 - Line check 2 hands Quote
09-18-2018 , 08:26 AM
Hand 1: Check dark is fine in this situation. This hand is going to play pretty automatically once villain puts in half their stack. Your check looks strong but once villain 4 bets to half his stack neither if you can credibly indicate they are weak anyways.

Hand 2: I favor a c-bet against most villains multiway but a check is OK because the board is so dry. When you check flop you should bet turn larger, make it $130. You are still targeting V2 at this point and it's hero's best chance to get money out of a flush draw. Given the play of the hand river is trivial.
2/5 - Line check 2 hands Quote
09-18-2018 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
Why do you put the board cards out with suits etc, but expect us to read ye old wall of text to discern your hand?
First sentence indicated it was wordy, bail or proceed. Why cry about it? I gave text to provide context for my decisions as a few moves were not ABC / standard. One starting hand doesn't have icons next to it, is it that critical? You are not required by law to read it all...

Last edited by c0rnBr34d; 09-18-2018 at 10:44 AM.
2/5 - Line check 2 hands Quote
09-18-2018 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
Hand 1, dark check looks more suspicious and stronger than a regular check - dark checking to preflop aggressor is normal but when you have all ready put in half your stack it is not credible

Hand 2, I like a cbet on the flop here, but we don't risk much checking back, turn size seems too small
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
Hand 1: Check dark is fine in this situation. This hand is going to play pretty automatically once villain puts in half their stack. Your check looks strong but once villain 4 bets to half his stack neither if you can credibly indicate they are weak anyways.

Hand 2: I favor a c-bet against most villains multiway but a check is OK because the board is so dry. When you check flop you should bet turn larger, make it $130. You are still targeting V2 at this point and it's hero's best chance to get money out of a flush draw. Given the play of the hand river is trivial.
Good points, I'm pretty close in line with QuadJ. H2 turn bet was sized down to solicit action but if they are calling $100 they are calling $130ish.
2/5 - Line check 2 hands Quote
09-18-2018 , 02:12 PM
Grunch

Hand 1: the chat and stallling doesn't help you look weak - "the speech" usually = nuts. Flatting preflop when there's less than a 1/2 PSB on the flop just seems pointless. I think V is committed already when he puts in > half effective stacks. I'd pause the same length of time I would to consider a shove with JJ/AK and then just put all my chips in preflop.

Hand 2: this is a slightly weird one. Usually my immediate thought is to check top set on a dry board because it's so hard for anyone to have anything. Here I think it's actually not the best play.

You're IP in this hand and squeezing so your range looks wider than normal. When V3 SB cold-calls I'm putting a lot of pairs and AQ in his range. Then I think his call can bring in V2 with a somewhat wider range but he should still have plenty of pairs considering he just flatted an EP open.

So with the flop being so low apart from the J I think you look weakest when you cbet flop. At least one villain has a pocket pair a good amount of the time here and will be forced to call at least one bet on this board assuming you have a good amount of AK//AQ/AXs that's just trying to take the pot down (also a low equity semibluff with BD draws and overs).

Checking flop is almost what they expect you to do with KK+ some of the time given how dry flop is.

Also if one does have a pair and flop checks through there are 16 overcards can come on tun and prevent you getting value as easily.

Just a thought though - I probably check here some of the time too just because I have the board too crushed and I want them to catch up a bit.
2/5 - Line check 2 hands Quote
09-18-2018 , 02:18 PM
Reading others - I concur with betting turn larger. You've given them a chance to catch up, they might have QX they can now have some draws so you may as well bet targeting hands with reasonable equity rather than worrying about helping Ace-high to call.
2/5 - Line check 2 hands Quote
09-19-2018 , 12:28 PM
Thanks all for feedback. I guess I answered some of my own questions. There are probably always some lines you could improve. I was perhaps a bit results oriented but my main takeaway is sizing on turn bet for Hand 2.

Results:
Spoiler:

Hand 1 - Either V was very optimistic or I did a better job selling weakness than people here thought. At showdown V asks if I have a pair. I didn't respond as I kind of wanted to see his hand and I called his all in. Still nothing, dealer tells V he has to show. V is still tanking and turns over only a red deuce. At this point since it was slowing the game down I figured it was A2s or something and showed my hand to scoop. Since I'll probably play with this guy again I figured I wouldn't be a jerk about making him show both here. It made me think that the line was perfect though. I'm not at all convinced V calls the 5! with 2x pre. Once he flops a pair he's never folding but I think it goes to show that he can have some air here and I can bet him off even though he's "Committed". He picked up his remaining couple of chips and stormed off after the hand.

Hand 2 - V didn't show but I assume it was AQ given the speech. I still got his stack so hadn't considered the sizing mistake on the turn given it was still 3 way. I still don't mind checking this flop sometimes.
2/5 - Line check 2 hands Quote

      
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