2-5 1k BI

V MP Covers - 20s Euro, likely here for the series, mashing us for a few K over the last couple hours via LAG, but has also shown down some pretty out-of-line stuff (imo) and is playing a lot of hands the last hour or so.

Hero BTN ~$1500- 30s, up and down, a little more active than usual given the lineup, but not really sure how V perceives me/if he cares/we haven't tangled much.

V open 20, Hero calls A9 others fold

(~$40) 862
V $40, Hero calls.

(~$120) Turn 3
V $100, Hero calls.

(~$320) River 8
V $250, Hero calls.

Open to all thoughts.

I mean, it seems pretty bad by itself. I don't mind flop assuming he's cbetting 100%, but I need a very high turn barrel to call turn, it's a bad barrel card and we're towards the bottom of our range, no shame in just ditching it. If we make it to the river I'd call assuming villain doesn't merge much and has to have an 8 for the river bet to be for value.

I mean we even lose to some of his bluffs like AJ or AQ,and i dont like your line as an overall approach- calling down close to pot sized bets on all streets with A high no draw doesent sound like a very +EV route to take.

My first reaction is that we can just likely just fold on the flop, even to a LAG C-betting a big percentage of the time. If we want some light flop peels here in our range i believe we can choose other combos like AQ off that we might flat pre, or a smaller pair like 44 or 55 that beat all his unpaired overcard bluffs.

I'm OK with the call pre this deep.

Otherwise I pretty much hate post-flop.

This isn't a terrible flop to float, but I don't like floating to a PSB really.

If I'm floating, it's because I want to try to take it away when checked to on the turn or if I turn a pair, FD or gut shot. I definitely fold turn when a blank hits and V fires almost a PSB at us.

On the river, V is still pretty much completely uncapped here. Is he really triple barrel bluffing with worse than ace high here almost 1/3 of the time? Even worse, sometimes he's bluffing with a better ace high, I would much rather bluff catch here with a hand that at least beats all his bluffs.

On the river, I can also get behind a river raise - villain should need an 8 to call us, and should only have 78s/89s/A8s, maybe 8Ts and 86s in his range. There are only 2 combos of 89s and A8s left since we block one each, 1 combo of 86s then 2 of the other ones for 7 combos, plus his boats and quads giving him another 10 combos that can call our range. So if we raise to like $650 or so, he needs to have ~40 combos that he is betting on the river, with 22 of them folding.

Fair. But before I thought about his bluffs with better, I was struggling to identify his value range, that sizes like this, particularly on the river.

Yeah, I kind of feel like this is taking heroism too far.

You lose to ALL of 22+, AT+. All of it.
You lose to every suited connector from 2-3 to 8-9.
You lose to more than have the Ace rag hands you started out ahead of.

You beat non ace broadways and 9T.

I mean a super aggressive lag could bluff those all the way, but they could also value bet or bluff every hand beating you all the way.

If you are going to call with Ad9d there, then on that flop you either need to give up or bluff with a raise. You clearly expect him to barrel most of his range, so a float is not great, and hero calling is predictably expensive..

Flop calll is meh, turn call is starting to look a little bad, and river call is just spew. IMO.

You're a sicko, but a river raise is pretty cool and might actually be way ahead of calling/folding. It crossed my mind after the hand, not during. I think I could execute the line, sometimes, but I doubt I could do it without some more history - but that could be a leak (moreso than getting to this spot without having bluff shoves, not sure)

Flop: Prob just fold vs psb but would peel vs normal size cbet.
Turn: Seriously, no shame in folding.
River: Now that you're here and his line is basically repping straight+ (for a probable online guy), don't fold. Not sure what "out-of-line stuff" means, but if you think he could show up with AKo/AQo type hands then raise river small to get better A high to fold. Otherwise if it's just natural bluffs like missed flush draws and straight draws then call.

Some LAGs can for sure blast like this with QQ+ or sets, if they sense that their villains are in stationmode with a very wide range and " have had enough" of their aggro tendencies. If he is any good at least, he can sense when people are going to station him down all the streets no matter what comes. And sure he can very likely be running a big bluff too, but even though we suspect that we are just vastly handicapped here because of the fact that we hold A9.

But yeah, i am on board with your trouble of ranging him, especially if you havent seen many hands where he have been barrelling off 3 streets like this. That being said as others have mentioned, his range is totally uncapped really with the raise pre and blast every street so its not much we can do with A9 to fold-until we get a better grasp of what he is doing.

Best we can do in this cases in my opinion is to observe him extremely close, and trying to correlate his barrelling frequenzies with actual holdings he is showing down,in order to get a better base to range him more accurate if we should find ourself in similar spot against him later on.

All those AQ+ combos... I do block them a little, and I mean is he really bomb, bomb, bombing with them, esp on the river? Maybe he is, maybe that's a big mistake on my part, but I mean it seems like a damn awful river for him no?

V has 4 combos of 54s that makes perfect sense and are definitely calling.

Seems like calling down just cant be the correct way to deal with a LAG. If this is the table meta then I see why he is bombing. Either fight back or fold.


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intersting hand.

I don't hate the call down. Don't really like it either. Reminds me of aggression wars at 30/60 limit where someone is up a few K and just keeps bombing away until they are called down super light.

River is a must call when the board pairs 8s though.

Don't really like the call on the turn. Lots of value hands that we could rep with a raise and get V off of the hand right there. Because if he rivers his QJo, or whatever peice of cheese he has been bombing with, we are going to hate the way we played the hand.

Idk, you didn't go into detail with your read so that's why I suggested two different plays. Most players are checking AKo-AJo somewhere so call is prob better.

This is the perfect way to handle a LAG when we have a value hand.

However, we don't, soooooo.....

I like this!

river raise is cool because we block A8/98, and have way more 8x as played. Villain shouldnt be going for 3 full streets with 8x especially with that sizing. sucks to get snapped off by 66 but whatever.

i think villain has a pretty high bluff frequency given runout and description... but i just feel like we are way at the bottom of our range. we have so many better hands to call (and not just talking about 8x/boats)... think calling down here is just way too stationy and i consider myself a bit station. even when we think villain might be bluffing too often in this particular spot, think its just too spewy to call down with the bottom of our range.

also agree we lose to some bluffs.

3b pre as played call flop is thin but w/e as played fold turn as played raise river sometimes

Give us more information on hero... What is your perceived range after calling flop and turn??

The guiding principle behind most successful lags' play is simple. Play a wide bluffy range for all of the first bets (pre, flop, turn), but tend to have it for the last bet. Furthermore, tend to have it when bet sizes are adjusted up. They count on their villains assuming they're bluffing too much, and they recoup losses in smaller pots that they bluffed at by winning the big pots.

This isn't to say that a lag wouldn't ever triple barrel bluff, but are they really going to triple barrel bluff when the top card on the flop doesn't change on the turn and pairs on the river? And if he is triple barrel bluffing, certainly there are some hands that he's bluffing with that have A9-high beat.

Anyway, my assumption here is that the last bet is most often for value, with hands possibly as light as T8s or J8s, but also add some A8, 45s, 86s, 66, 22, 33.

Raising river does seem better than a flat, but it's hard to give ourselves a great price on it.

I get the theory of bluffing the river once you get there, but I still don't feel you should ever get there. You're going to float 2 streets on the off chance the river sets up a good bluff?

I think if you are this determined to hero call down, you need to cold call with a much tighter range.

And still think against rabid aggression the best time to bluff is on the flop. Rep a hand that he can't expect to be laying down to any of his aggression, win a fair bit of the time, and give up the rest. If he is so wild he'll just charge through a flop raise, again, don't get involved with a hand like this.

Good points, and i agree. Thus i also think bluffraising the river could be incredibly spewy without more in depth reads on villains range in this 3 barrell spot.

I really can't be sure what he thought of me other than that I hadn't been stationing and didn't get to SD too often for the time he was there. Doesn't help much.

Kind of liked the idea of taking a flop with pretty good equity with a hand I'm never 4betting/calling 3bs with.

I just found his flop sizing really whack, maybe more of a game flow thing I didn't really express well in OP, but even in general it was his sizing that left me stationing this so hard, right or wrong.

It is because he was 'climbing the ladder' on each street.

Take the normal value bet for each street and bump it up by 30 - 50%, and that is what he was betting. Something that it a clear pattern for a bluff, trying to get max fold pressure.