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Old 08-21-2017, 01:56 PM   #26
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,863
Re: 2/5 KQo facing flop AI

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post

If the table is super soft and playing ABC/face-up you don't have anything to worry about, but at a tougher 2/5 game with multiple 200 BB+ stacks you are just asking for trouble. At this point I am way more likely to raise KQo out of the BB facing 1-3 limpers (very general statement) than to open raise UTG. You really need some bad players out there who will call multiple streets with TPworseK or call draws with poor direct odds to show a profit.
Don't agree with any of this. First I have never played at any 2/5 game where guys are just not calling with Top pair worse kickers. K10s, K9s, KJs are all peeling king high flops. Seems like fairly easy adjustment if they are folding the top end of their range.

Also, the stronger than game. More likely they are 3 betting hands that are ahead of us. And folding KQ to 3bet from UTG is fairly trivial fold (depending on how you structure your UTG range).

Unless your betting full pot on flops. Flush draws, and straight draws are also not folding. In tighter game they may fold turn often. But in reality we can get value from 75% of player pool on turn also.

Although I would agree. KQ isn't going to print money from UTG. Not many hands are. But KQ does play fairly easy postflop.

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Old 08-21-2017, 05:13 PM   #27
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Re: 2/5 KQo facing flop AI

@JohnnyBuz, @Case2 -- thanks for the additional thoughts on this. 100% agree about preferring QJs and such over KQo. I was curious if anyone would strongly defend KQo here and "loss leader" seems like the best and strongest defense IMO. This thread has pretty much confirmed to me this is a fold most of the time in 1/3 & 2/5 (partly due to no one really defending it other than it's the worst hand they'd raise with which is not much of an endorsement...)

Also, when further reviewing this hand I realized that I sort of over-estimated how good of a flop this is given it's 2tone and the flush/gutshot combo draws here are reasonably powerful, but it's still a pretty good flop for KQo in the overall scheme of things. Maybe the bigger picture here is you need to see a safe turn before you feel somewhat good here about your equity (as some folks pointed out via equity calculations).
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