$ 2/5 game that has been running for almost 2 hours. Play has been mostly concentrated on one V who has been playing almost every hand and been hit in the face by the deck. A few 3! have mostly been taken down by a c bet by the OR. No 4! so far.

V1 ($1200): Mid 30s reg. Plays 5/10 when games are running. Has been playing very straight forward and barely involved in any hands. On his phone as soon as having folded. Seems to be playing his cards, but clearly a competent player who is positionally aware. No real history with Hero, only sat at the same table ones before. Should know hero is a reg at 1/2.

V2 ($800): Early 40s reg at this level. Played with him a few times before. Fairly tight, definetely aware of relative hand strenghts but overall not that good. Certainly perceives himself better than he actually is. In the two hours he has been playing only a few hands, and played them straightforward. No showdown.

Hero ($1300): Early 20s. Reg at 1/2. Taking shots at 2/5. V1 definetely knows Hero has not played much at 2/5. V2 recognizes villain, but pays less attention to players. Has been caught bluffing once, otherwise played tight.

HH:

Straddle $10. V1 in UTG raises to $50 (Fairly large for table, usual around 35). Folds to hero in MP who looks down at K K. Hero reraises to $170. V2 in CO thinks for a few seconds and shoves for $800. V1 takes 20 seconds and calls.

Hero?

I know that it is not very often we should be folding KK pre, if at all. Is that a spot where we can do so? Does V1 have anthing else than AA here? Obviously it is very player dependent, but in this example? Would it change if V shoved? What range do we put V2 on here? Is he cold shoving something like QQ or AKs here?

Wow! Such a gross spot. With the given descriptions and V1's action, I'll probably fold here without telling anyone. Haven't folded KK pre long time for 150bb's but if this situation happens to me with these V's even I'm folding.

V1 looks so strong, can't put him to another hand. Flatting and shoving wouldn't change much. I don't think V2 spazzing here with AK. His range looks QQ+.

Super gross - I think I find the fold button however I don't think V1 has AA as I think he would shove to isolate.

Do you really think V2 has AA? He could since he shoved but without other reads or a little more history I can't call

there is no reason to isolate.

Hero has $1200 and he just called a bet of $800


There is only $400 more to play with.


If your reads are absolutely correct - and he can't do this with AK or QQ or the other KK than this is a fold.

If by chance he gets it in with AK, QQ, or the other KK than you can ship it in.

I hate being put in these spots - especially if I am up for the session or about to quit.

They say never fold KK pre flop in situations like this - but I still do. I mean you cold 3bet to $170 and get cold 4bet to $800 and the UTG player calls. What else could they have except AA unless they are super aggro players.


I think there is a pretty big mistake in this hand. The fact that you 3bet so big and now have no idea what to do is a pretty big mistake.

I am not sure I even like your 3bet. I think just flatting the $50 is fine - or making it $120 is much better. Why did we 3 bet so big, do we never want a worse hand to call us?

Fold. Against described Vs one has aces. Too deep to find out.

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I would fold this easily 240bb deep in this situation. V1 can't flat AK or QQ here and he folds all worse hands. I doubt he does this with KK but we block anyway so he 95%+ has AA. I guess never say never but nothing else makes sense.

I disagree with this. KK is a mandatory three bet here. The fact that you got two shoves this time doesn't mean that you played it wrong. This action will hardly ever happen and generally speaking you should love piling chips into this pot with KK.

Like others have said, I'm folding here.

Gross spot, especially when your taking a shot. What were the results?

Thank you for all the responses. Really not often we should be folding KK pre, but if ever this might be the time. As for the big 3! I figured V1s range is very strong and thought he would continue with most of it. Since he knows I have not played much 2/5 I figured he might think I am playing a bit scared money or think the raise was an "omg I hate playing JJ" type of thing. I do not like flatting here since straddler was the spewy V who would most certainly call, giving other players after me but before him incentives to call.

Results

Just be aware of your own image and sizing, I doubt a capable player is going to 4b shove light against a 3b over a 5x open in a straddled pot. I lay down KK in this spot without too much consideration. If I'm V2 and see a 5x UTG raise followed by a 3b from a shot taking 1/2 player I would be snap folding everything except AA.

Would have been sick if the flop came K high lol

*Grunch*

If they were so tight that at least 1 player here will ONLY have AA, then the decision is easy. Let's say the CO has only AA and the other has AA-QQ.

EV call = .67(-$800 + .46($400) - .46($400) + .078($0)) + .1588($2170) - .1175($1130) = -$536 + $212 = -$324.

So if CO always has AA here you lose $324. The issue is, if the CO is good he will not have only AA here (since if he does we know we can exploit him by folding since calling loses $324). A great shoving range for CO will have around 25-30% bluffs and the remaining range being AA. That would be two combos of small suited aces or small pairs and 6 combos of AA.

One last fun exercise: what if both villains always have AA?

EV call = .204(2170)- .789($1030) = -$384

What if both have AA-QQ?

EV call = .1855(2170) + small win from chop pot - .6828(1030) = -$300 + small win from chop pot

I'd fold since the info you gave is they would each only have QQ+ here.