H has a clean image at the table, has not played with V too much but v is def a thinking player. Thus far he's been in line, hasn't show down anything that would make H thinks he's too wide with his range and making mistakes.

V has 2.4k H covers.

Straddle, v limps UTG, folds to H in bb, makes it 45, straddle calls, v makes it 150. Sizing is a little strange, would expect it to be a little bigger. H does not want straddler in the pot, 4b to 340, fold, v calls.

F(720): 833
cbet 280, call

T(1280): 8
x, x. I think checking our entire range is fine here. We don't need to protect against anything, we're heavily blocking AK, KQ and I think V range is TT-AA primarily. The plan was to go for 2 streets.

R(1280): 3
H 400


Based on our bet/check, river is always a bet?
Should the sizing be any bigger?
Any merrits to checking even though we risk TT-QQ checking back?
Thoughts please

Yeah, river is always a bet AP, imo. I would go bigger most of the time on the "no one folds a boat" theory, but if we prefer b/c to b/f, I suppose the smaller sizing makes it possible to call if he raises. Personally, I don't love the merged value/induce sizing without better reads.

Can we ever b/c this spot?
And what's your sizing here if you don't prefer 400?

Range checking turn is really, really bad. Your range should be extremely polar here.

I don’t get to the river with a value range at all. I guess shove as played.

Pre: fine. I could quibble about sizing, bit too small both times, but whatever.

Flop: 4bet pots we "should" be betting around 20-25%. In reality V has a bunch of overpairs that are never folding flop and we could bet much bigger. Either way, i dislike this middle-of-the-road sizing OP used here. Bet 180 or 500 imo.

Turn: The plan was to go for 2 streets? Why? The turn is effectively a blank. if he has us beat, we are losing 3 bets anyway. Bet all day.

River: AP, easy bet, and bet big imo, 600-800ish. If he's stuck and/or tilty, probably just jam.

Yeah, against a V who loves to put you on AK and thinks of any boat as the nuts, we could b/c. We don't have those reads, though.

Assuming we are b/f, I like a straight up fat value sizing of 1/2-2/3 pot. I mean, the Zeebo theorem is liely a bit outdated, but I still don't see TT-QQ folding for that sizing, and it's most of his range.

AP, agree that river is definitely value time, maybe $600 or so.

Turn - I'd bet for value, in particular if don't have the Kh.
Opponent may have a couple of over pair/FD combos, besides 12 combos of QQ/JJ, and another 8 of AK which might call on a double paired board.

Ranges are polarzed here. Are you saying because the ranges are polarized we need to continue betting the turn? Please elaborate if ya can.

bolded is a good point, we're not x/f turn, and when called we're not x/f rivers.

I agree that v does not fold. I was trying to make sure TT-QQ calls, but that range isn't folding to a halfpot bet, or even a 2/3rd pot bet after turn goes check check.

Ok, so we bet $400, and v ships...

We are doing what here?

Probably shrug & calloff if I ever took a line this bad with your hand

You'll somehow lose a ton of the time tho...

Elaborate why the line is "this bad" and why "shrug & calloff"

What do you think each players ranges are? How much of V's range are you behind? How much of V's range is happy to face a turn bet? How much of that range do you expect to bet when checked to?

I think villain has mostly bluffcatchers with the occasional AA/88. Checking just misses value with KK and especially with AA because most of villain's range should be happy to check back and be a street closer to showdown. Generally you'll be polarized when you 4-bet pre, the opponent flats, and the board is total bricks.

If we think he never or only rarely has AA we would want to shove KK, but on second thought maybe on river as played it's best to shove with AA and bet smaller with other hands if we think villain's range has all combos of AA or most of them. Shoving KK might just get him to fold most of the hands we beat.

I'd fold to the shove. I don't expect villain to value worse in a l/rr/4-bet pot, even if we took a funny line by checking turn. I don't really expect him to be bluffing much, if ever, in this spot either.

Also, your reasoning for the 4-bet isn't good. Why wouldn't you want the straddler in the pot when you have KK? If you're 4-betting because you think you're ahead of the 3-bettors continuing range that's great, but not great if you're only doing it to iso.

Yuck. This is why I hate the intermediate sizing OTR. It leaves us in such a weird spot. I guess we call it off because we are underrepped after the turn check and small river bet, not to mention the downbet OTF that might or might not look weak to V, depending on how up on recent trends he is. I'm not loving the call and expect to see AA most of the time. We only need to be good 28.5% of the time, though.

AA 5bets sometimes, raises flop sometimes, bets turn sometimes, flats river sometimes. So we lose to lol 8x, LOL 3x, and whatever combo's of AA are left.
Villain probably thinks he can bluff us of a chop some of the time...

Shrug and call off indeed.

I think river bet is mandatory.

Against a normal guy I just fold to a jam. Is he really turning JJ into a bluff? I guess he could have some AK but he’s trying to bluff us off a big pair when he reps no nutted hands outside of aces?

Against a very capable pro it’s a weird spot. He limp raised pre UTG so I’m only 4 betting a pretty tight range. I don’t know what my range is here, but let’s say I take this line with AK with one heart, two combos of AA and 4 combos of KK. In that case I guess KK is usually a call.