It says in the OP... V obv has AA.

Simply this.


Dont give the results in the hand for better answers, but this is an easy fold.

Grunch.
If you had better image, this is an easy fold pre. 4bet fold all day. Good sizing. As played with your image, I could see him possibly overplaying QQ here. Considering that he's been so passive though, I think his range is KK+ with the occasional QQ and I would fold pre.

Oh and fish tend to be passive pre which would give you more reason to fold KK, not less.

Fold; but I agree with Venice. I feel that if V did 3b! with a hand like TT, JJ or even QQ, they would make a 3b! larger since they feel vulnerable and concerned an overcard might hit on the flop. With a hand like KK and AA, V feels that min-raising is the best play since he feels comfortable that no overcard will hit the flop. Of course, a competent V is going to make the same size 3b! with JJ as he would with AA, just for balancing purposes. Since V seems to be a pretty weak player(ex not 3b! at all and not buying in full) I feel like his range is weighted toward KK and AA and thus since there is only 1 combo of KK he most likely has a monster and wouldn't mind flatting his very small 3b!

There are some LLSNL principles of poker that I have developed over the years and one of them concerns deep stack preflop play.

When you have a short stacking rec-fish who has built up his 40bb BI up to 200bb+ he is never, and I mean NEVER 4-bet or 5-bet shoving preflop without AA.

He just isn't.

The absolute BOTTOM of his range in this spot is KK and truth be told, he isn't 5-betting KK, he's just flatting the 4-bet.

The other way I like to think about this sort of spot is the following.

What is the point of having all our awesome 2+2 skills if we just play like all the other rec-fish out there. Pretty much everyone in LLSNL stacks off preflop with KK. Sure, for 50bb no problem, for 75bb no problem, for 100bb okay sure... but for 150bb+???

Well, the answer is "It depends"

What type of villain are we stacking off against?
Maniacs, Gamblooors, ego-maniacs, super awesome hoodie/shades youngsters, tilt monkeys, drunks, degenerates, wannabe durrrs.... Okay I'm fine with playing for stacks...

But not against:
Weak tights, passives, OMCs, nits, scared money, passive ABCers, and rocks....

and this goes double for players who we have not seen 3-bet not once in 4 hours of play. WTF?

Serious question. What is the point of having all of our super awesome 2+2 poker skills if we can't fold KK in this spot? Serious question.

Reciprocity is at the heart of poker.

Every time we make a +EV play our villains do not make, we win
Every time we avoid a -EV play our villains will not avoid, we win.

This is not a cooler.

Let me guess, you lost the hand? Give the guy some credit, maybe he read you like a book.

I think people should stop calling other people fish. We're all fish. Some might say that OP was a fish to stack off in this situation with all the information he had, and a fish not to realize it in his analysis. As we see here, labeling opponents as fish is not only disrespectful, it's a very narrow-minded way of seeing things that can lead to terrible decisions.

Yes his 88 held up, but that is not the point of my post.

The point is that my general stackoff range in that spot has him crushed and that it is an example of wishful thinking "to put me" on the one hand that he is flipping against and not being totally dead. He has absolutely no idea of what i have, he just sees 88 and that he dont want to fold and that is really fishy donk play.

Give the guy credit for stacking off with 88 preflop in a cashgame? Lol, you got to be kidding me right? I label bad players as fish and i have no problem with that. I also regurarly play with several players wich i really respect their game, and i have no problem telling them either.

I understood your point, I guess you won't understand mine.

Probably the interesting part here is the snap min-click PF which is what confused the situation. This can be interpreted in different ways, but without reads V can be doing this relatively wide so I like the 4bet PF. To a standard 3bet size (3x) I would see a flop.
As previous posters have said, I think its an easy dump once he 5bets especially given the sizing. This is never, ever QQ/AK so you are playing to chop or lose.

It's a cooler with respect to absolute hand strength, just like having a king high flush and running into the nut flush on a 4 flush board is an absolute hand strength cooler. It is not, however, a cooler with respect to an average 2/5 passive fish's range because it will be so rare to see this type of player make a stack committing 5bet with worse. So absolute hand strength cooler, yes. Relative hand strength cooler, no.

I prefer 4betting small to get value out of his entire min 3betting range and to keep the betting lead as I don't expect this player to barrel off with missed AK/AQ hands and keeping the betting lead allows us to control the sizing and doesn't allow him to take a pot control line with worse or take a free card when behind. So 4bet small/fold is optimal imo.

Lol ! Come play at my table.

Op never fold a big hand faceup

Grunch:

Against described V, I like 4b/f on the small side. V clicked it on you, so make it $100-$115 to keep his weaker 3b range in with the plan to fold to a 5b. KK is great and all, but this guy just isn't 5b without AA. FFS he might even have a joker lol.