2/5 game. Hero has been very active. Mostly due to good hands but like most when I'm running and playing well, I'm making quite a few moves. Villain 1 is the definition of OMC. Must be 70, at least. Extremely nitty. I recall him raising twice in the 4 hours I've been playing with him. Once he showed down QQ, the other was ended preflop. His raises seem to be on the large size prob due to nittiness. Villain 2 is pretty active, doesn't appear to be very good. Raises alot preflop with speculative hands.

Hero $2900
OMC $872
Villain 2 $225

Utg limps
Hero utg+1 raises to $25 with KcKs
MP calls $25 this guy is completely irrelevant. Donkey, calls any normal preflop raise amt
OMC raises to $125
Villain 2 shoves for $225
Utg folds

Hero?

Shove IMO. If you are up against aces so be it. Even if V2 has aces you have OMC's dead money in the pot if he folds. If OMC has aces, well you are going to lose some money most of the time but you are way ahead when he has JJ, QQ, AK, AQ.

KK v AA is so rare folding in fear of it is almost always a mistake unless you are an elite level hand reader.

OMC 70+ 3betting "100 on top" and red flags are going up all over the place. I wouldn't call it dead money. V2's shove is irrelevant here.

min 4bet/click it back... "Extremely nitty" OMC is probably one of the only types of players to fold kings against.

This.

If i should construct a 4 bet range for OMC this nitty due to OPs description (raising twice in 4 hours of play), i just think his 4 bet range here is only KK/AA.

Its just isnt any wider. This is AK or JJ like ever. What you see is what you get, no doubt.

But, if i could manage to fold KK in this hand when i am actually sitting at the table? I dont really know, because its so ****ing hard to do. But if i would do it once a year, its against OMC this super nitty.

Am I reading this correctly? Posters are referring to OMC's 4b range, but I only see OMC making a 3b (albeit a 5x 3b) and a looser player making a 4b shove.

Is the looser player likely to notice that it's an OMC 3b when he makes his 4b? I guess the loose player can "put him on AK" and shove TT, but most observant players would recognize the OMC big 3b as being weighted toward QQ+.

I'm not concerned about Villain 2. If he has AA and I only lose $225 with KK , I actually consider that kind of a win. My only concern is OMC.
This is never JJ or AK. Maybe QQ, def KK, unlikely but possible and AA

Sorry, my mistake Axel. I meant 3 bet range in my last post ITT, not 4 bet range. When OMC 3 bets this amount after a substansial open raise size and one caller, its never JJ or AK. Its KK/AA and QQ maybe 20 percent of the time. Maybe. But its heavily weighted towards KK/AA.

while looking at him and jamming say "I put you all in..." because you know that guy has said that many times.

if he does happen to instacall say "aces are way behind, I apologize in advance..." setting up a nuclear winter in the card room when a K comes.

I think villain 2 has Ax here a lot which would be a blocker to OMC's AA. OMC can have QQ can he not? In your description you mentioned he had 3 bet this hand earlier. Its also possible he was getting fed up with JJ (possible haha). I like the min-raise. If OMC flats i shove flop. If he snap shoves...BLUAHAHHASDFHSADFSADFSADASD puke fold.

Its never JJ,never. Lets dont level ourself here.

A 70 year old OMC who raises two pots in 4 hours of play is going to 3 bet JJ here?

Its gonna snow in hell before that happens.

No I didn't say that he 3 bet QQ. He open raised

Shove It All In1

With 600 or less, just get it in.
But this deep, hero can 5bet to 325 and then fold if OMC ships.

A simple answer like this has little or no value, whats interesting is how did you get to your conclusion. So i have two questions:

1) What kind of 3 bet range do you assign OMC in this spot?

2) Which arguments,reads or facts based on reads are you weighting when working out the range?

Misread HH, I 100% agree. PM sent.

5!/folding just seems awful tho, by that time, if I did the math correctly, we'll be getting almost 3:1 and even vs KK+ we're still ~23% & if we add even 1 combo of AK ( I KNOW, SUPER DUPER UNLIKELY ) we're getting the right price. I don't hate flatting, OMC might repop Aces after the flat and then we get out cheaper than 5!/f & if we make it to the flop preceding cautiously is advised - but if we 5! he's folding everything but Aces.
Weird Spot.

No problem man, happens to all of us

Facing a 3bet and an overshove its almost always AA unless you have a read that V is tilty or will 4bet shove with QQ or worse.

Muck

This might be my favorite post ever, I'm so going to do this, but after I spike the hand I will look him dead in the eye and say "that's poker".