Wild and crazy 2/5. Most of the table is 200-400x deep or more.

V1 is a midstakes limit reg who I have a lot of history with (mostly at LHE). He's really good at LHE and he's pretty solid at NL too. He was playing too nitty this session though. He knows I played NL online for a living so he presumably thinks I'm good at it. We haven't gotten involved much at all this session, despite sitting next to each other deep.

V2 is a tatted up hispanic hoodrat looking dude. Playing like 70/20 and splashing around a lot post flop. Not much more of a read other than that he's a solid favorite to lose all of his money before he goes home (he ran his stack up from like $400).

V1 starts hand with ~$3k
V2 starts with ~$2k
Hero covers both

Hero is UTG+2 w/ K K

V2 opens UTG for $20
V1 3-bets to $60
Hero calls

V2 has a huge limping range so his UTG raising range is on the stronger side
V1 hadn't done much 3-betting PF and this is a small 3-bet for the table.

I know people are going to say I should 4-bet here but 4-betting PF in this game just wasn't done by anybody ever. If I make it 220 or something V1 is going to fold almost all of his range, perhaps everything other than QQ-AA, because he knows I'm never cold 4-betting him there without a monster. Perhaps V2 would still come along but again that bet would just look so strong I just felt like I'm taking the pot down PF there a huge % of the time - and that's not what I wanted to do.

So one more person comes along and V1 calls.

Flop Q 2 4

Check to V1 he bets $180, Hero calls, V2 makes it $380, V1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn T

V2 bets $400, Hero calls

River J

V2 checks, Hero checks.

Thoughts on all of that appreciated, particularly my decision to check back the river.

If you think they are going to fold to a big 4 bet ($220 is huge) then make it like $160 or something. I think you can make a case for just folding to the $200 more on the flop. If the guy doesn't 3bet much then what are you beating here? AQ? Even though he's splashing around I'm not convinced he is in a 3bet pot here with this sizing it just looks like value.

Your hand is severely under-repped. Would hate to bet the river now and turn our hand into a value bluff.

I think you lost a lot of value pf by not 4 betting in this situation. If this is a wild and crazy game (nobody is 4 betting?), then you'll get a lot of money in when you're ahead of their ranges. If they fold pf, they likely weren't going to put much in the pot post flop (and, this is a wild and crazy game?)

Once you decided to call, you decided to play this passively which you followed through with.

While V1 may fold to a 4bet, I'd still re-pop to iso V2, especially this deep. If he folds, he folds.

As played, I think the river check is best. His line actually looks like AA, which is why I would have folded to the flop raise. That even raise amount ($200 on top) usually means strength. I don't think we are beating much unless you believe he can overplay AQ.

As gross as it is im folding to his raise on the flop. Maybe Im a nit but based on villains description there will be a better spot to get chips from this guy. His hand looks like AA here... Players like him dont 3bet AQ much they usually call to hit flops, and if he has JJ or smaller or AK here I highly doubt hes raising over a donk and a call and turning his hand into a bluff. That being said Id probably level myself into playing it like you did since my hand is underrepped.

The Villain who raised the flop was not the one who 3-bet PF. He opened UTG and got 3-bet, I called the 3-bet and he called as well.

On the flop he checked, other Villain (who 3-bet PF) bet, I called and then he raised. Nobody donked.

The OP is messed up, then. You say V2 three-bet to $60 pre and then raised to $380 on the flop. Same villain.

I was a little confused when you explained who villains were (V2 limping UTG and then V1 three-betting). Can you fix OP?

****

can a mod change that please? it should read:

sorry

Why $220? 4 bet it to $110.

I find a fold on the flop check raise, but as played I like the river check back.

I'm expecting QQ or AA.

Unless I have the specific read villain is severely overplaying hands I'd fold flop

done.

I agree we should 4bet here, it doesn't need to be massive. When you say V2 has a huge limping range does that mean 44 and 22 are probably not raising hands for him? Also do you think he ever closes the action with AA in this spot?

I can see some players taking this line with AQ - when he checks the river I think he has a reasonably strong hand (in his eyes) but the board scares him. My first instinct would be to check back as well, but because our hand is so underrepped and I assume he doesn't check a set, I think we should probably bet ~$400-450.

How does V's line look like AA when he just called the 3bet preflop against 2 people??? More like AQ/QQ maybe.

Pretending I didn't read some of the responses because they are influenced by OP action: flatting is fine when stacks are this deep. I go for value here and 4bet here pre to not give smaller pair odds to set mine. As played, flop is standard. His microscopic turn sizing is weird, but again, it's just a call. River, I think we can eliminate QQ and AK(blocking anyway). Originally wanted to go thin and b/f ~500, but stacks are awkward now and I think checking back is best.

Because I made a mistake in the OP that has now been corrected. They thought V2 was the 3-bettor

Okay, so it seems AA is not in his range, also with river check, QQ is out too. 22/44 wasn't in his preflop raising range as per your reads. Did he show AQ or some silly bluff?

Well, I know you don't want to hear this, but the 4 bet is necessary to determine your opponents range. Particularly v2. Also, the check back on the river is a good decision. No sense in betting a pair here, for all we know this donk could've hit broadway or was worried about a straight holding 2 pair. Check back wins 65% of the time here in my opinion.

Agree with all of that but there are a bunch of two-pair combos he could have.

I'll post results later but not yet. Lots of good responses so far and I hope we can get a few more.

This needs more



River is interesting spot to maybe merge? Idk