Thanks for the thoughts, much appreciated.

I know it's a spot that more time with the villain would help tremendously, but sometimes you just have to go with what we've got.

As far as my experience goes (and I am talking 10k+ hours at live NL here), people NEVER show up with set of QQQ when they donk pot-sized on flop in a 4-bet pot when there are 2 pot-sized bets left. Slow-played AA is definitely reasonable and possible.

shove.

My point was if his range is JJ+ (this a deep stack LP pissing contest sometimes) and AK (maybe some random spazzes at times)...donking here shuts out all but the AA/KK part of the range that is getting it in virtually regardless of what we do. I agree if the 4b range is only AA or KK donking is probably fine. Not sure I ever recall a spot where this happened IRL though.

BTW I am a Tech grad though I suspect much older than you.

+1 to all of this...not as many hours as you but echo this.

Still better off check/jamming QQQ since everyones betting AA/KK anyways and can still get a bet out of hero if he has AK/rare bluff. I think donking in this spot by villian is bad regardless of what hand he has pretty much.

Not sure about the 4bet preflop with zero history. There is both plenty of merit in 4betting and calling. Really depends on table dynamics and with the ones described here I think I prefer calling because by 4betting we pretty much narrow his range to AA/QQ and we pretty much get owned when he has AA and when he has QQ he can often get away from it if he's a tight player and we got zero history once we 4bet.

We can play a pot in position and have his 3bet range dominated, or we can 4bet and be 50/50 against AA/QQ and lose more against AA than we win against QQ.

3bet range =/ 4bet OOP calling range.

Since he doesnt 3-bet light and a 4-bet generally signals a top 3 hand, i expect to see aces from V given reads and pre flop play. I guess PF we can pretty comfortably put his range at JJ-AA and AK.


Flop:

We can basically rule out Jacks and AK.

It is a possibility but i dont expect V to lead pot with set of queens against H who described himself as having c-bet and taking down pots previously so a donk bet would be a pretty bad play by V.

I can probably give V credit for thinking that, with stack sizes, if he were to 5-bet that it screams Aces and H could fold everything even Kings. OP id like to ask what you would do if he 5bet.

Having said that, this is effectively a $900 decision and i would advocate a fold against a relative tight unknown showing such aggression against you when you are repping QQ-AA (although i can totally see myself not being able to lay it down when actually in the situation lol).

The only thing is the classic 'i put you on AK' bluff but doubt it.

I think fold is best.

You guys advocating call/shove, what do you think his range is? His calling a 4bet OOP and bombing this flops range is?

He isn't doing it with 99/TT/JJ, he isn't doing it with AQ, he can't have AKss.

For continuing here to be profitable, he would need to call a 4bet OOP and randomly decide to bomb this flop with a medium poker pair or air. I don't think any tag is doing that, and assuming he is until you get proof from his play seems really awful.

Against a range of AA/QQ & nutflush draw hands we are absolutely crushed.

I'd have his range at something like AA/QQ & the really rare occasional AJss. AJss is super generous too.

Some snug player isn't calling a 4bet OOP and bombing this flop 200bb deep with AQ or any value hand we have beat.

I'm not sure about this...how many times have we played with people who just make bets "to see where they are" or they get involved in a pot where they flop TP and just don't know what to do so they bet big. Happens every session.

Having said that this is a really tough spot. Initially I thought calling and allowing him to barrel whatever spazz range he may have here. But I guess I would need a better read to feel confident in that.

More I think about it I think this is AA. Really odd hand.

^^ some people also do this with QQQ on a flush draw flop as they are affraid to lose to a flush.

I sigh fold. V's 4! calling range oop screams QQ. Tough luck.

Yes but not in this situation because:

• Its a pot sized bet
• Its half his stack basically so he is committing himself
• Its a large pot
• He's leading into the guy who 4-bet preflop

People are being way too definitive about ranges. Live players, especially low limit live players, don't play in 3bet/4 bet flops very often. They do goofy things under pressure.

I prefer a fold in this spot, but I don't think a call otf, then call/shove blank turns is bad either. Confusing, inconsistent lines make me want to call...

It's a 4bet pot, he's OOP, he's a tight player, he bets 400 into a 400 something pot with only 500 back....

Actually from my experience players playing " more snug than normal " 3bet and 4bet calling ranges are very defined unless proven otherwise.

This is what was going through my mind. I was really surprised to get donked into me a PSB. Not that it really threatens my stack any less than a smaller lead, just found it very unusual.

Again, thanks everyone for the thoughts.

It is likely you both have the same hand.

As unlikely as that is.

Now fold.

I don't think the spade combos are appropriate for most 2/5 villains here.

Also folks dont usually pot with a non value hand. JJ would be the only spazz factor hand but that would be some major spazz.

4 betting has narrowed his range to we're you are chopping at best. If he's got the sack to do this with AJs OOP then nice hand I guess. Why try to level yourselves into creating a range that we beat. I would just be glad that you weren't check raised instead because u would most likely of been committed after your C bet.