2/5 KJs Flop Decision 3 bet pot - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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2/5 KJs Flop Decision 3 bet pot

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10-04-2019 , 12:03 AM

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

2/5, 9 handed, $600 effective. BB is TAG, winning player, SB is a loose passive whale. Hero has either a TAG or LAG image.

OTTH

Hero opens $35 UTG (anything less was guaranteed mw) with K

, SB calls, BB 3 bets to $105. This is an lol price; I've never seen him 3 bet light, but with that price and position can we really fold? SB calls too.

Flop ($315): K

. SB x, BB bets $250. I hate life now. Folding here seems so nitty, but probably the way to go, right?

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10-04-2019 , 12:37 AM

chrissygolf

banned

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 331

Fold pre twice

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10-04-2019 , 01:23 AM

KID777777

adept

Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 869

Fold to the 3b, fold flop. Opening 7x utg is dicey, how much raising/3betting was going on in general

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10-04-2019 , 01:28 AM

Viral25

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,857

The open is fine. Fold to the 3bet tho. Even with good odds we should fold SOME hands and this is close to the bottom of our UTG range. If we were 1k+ deep it's much more of a call.

In this spot we are likely go 3 way against a stupidly strong range with an SPR of <2. It's pretty much a game theory disaster to call pre and then fold this flop, meanwhile we are virtually never ahead.

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10-04-2019 , 07:56 AM

Twentythrees

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 259

Open is ok but when a good thinking player 3b! Your utg open this is a very clear fold. This is the bottom of your range, you are not deep enough and KJs is an awful hand in 3bet pots. Multiway make it much much worse versus 2 ranges that have you probably dominated and no room to manover post flop.
If you want to click buttons, then 4bet this to 230.

Fold----------------->4bet-->call

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Last edited by Twentythrees; 10-04-2019 at 08:05 AM.

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10-04-2019 , 08:25 AM

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

If 7x is the standard open given the table dynamic, top-off if possible. At 120 bbs eff, this sizing leaves little manueverability post.

I'd limp/fold, definitely folding to the 3b. As played, fold.

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10-04-2019 , 09:10 AM

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by samo

If 7x is the standard open given the table dynamic, top-off if possible. At 120 bbs eff, this sizing leaves little manueverability post.

I'd limp/fold, definitely folding to the 3b. As played, fold.

So are you saying that I need to be buying in for max $1k given that these games require larger open sizes? I'm just taking a shot, but I suppose I could just go with 1.5 buy ins, and buy in for $1k off the bat.

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10-04-2019 , 09:29 AM

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,578

Ya, just muck pre and save yourself headache spots like these.
This is basically inviting trouble opening 7x here.
I would be really surprised if you can make this hand profitable UTG long term.

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10-04-2019 , 09:37 AM

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtraScratch8

Ya, just muck pre and save yourself headache spots like these.
This is basically inviting trouble opening 7x here.
I would be really surprised if you can make this hand profitable UTG long term.

Well if I open $20-$25 we will be going 3-5 ways to flop well over half of the time

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10-04-2019 , 09:46 AM

#10

chrissygolf

banned

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 331

Those are reasons to not play this hand utg

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10-04-2019 , 09:59 AM

#11

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissygolf

Those are reasons to not play this hand utg

So what, you're opening like 4% or less UTG?

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10-04-2019 , 10:27 AM

#12

chrissygolf

banned

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 331

Yes 9 or 10 handed needs to be super tight

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10-04-2019 , 11:05 AM

#13

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixsevenoff

I'd suggest BI for 200 bbs only if you truly have an edge. Since you're taking a shot, tighten up from EP. Game sounds good if 5x+ opens are going mw, so KJs facing the field is challenging, especially if you're new to these stakes.

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10-04-2019 , 12:10 PM

#14

Homey D. Clown

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,258

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixsevenoff

Well if I open $20-$25 we will be going 3-5 ways to flop well over half of the time

Is that so bad?

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10-04-2019 , 12:57 PM

#15

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixsevenoff

Well if I open $20-$25 we will be going 3-5 ways to flop well over half of the time

I would prefer that to this with this holding.

I would prefer sitting this hand out to either option.

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10-04-2019 , 03:50 PM

#16

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homey D. Clown

Is that so bad?

Yeah, I always look to get it HU

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10-04-2019 , 05:08 PM

#17

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,764

Sorry, sixsevenoff, but I'd rather raise/call sixsevensuited than KJs. I fold this EP usually the first time, always the second. As played, I fold now.

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10-04-2019 , 05:44 PM

#18

Ragequit99

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 2,575

Grunching:

I fold KJs to the 3bet preflop.

Even if 3bettor is wider here than usual he's still strong because he knows the whale is calling and you're opening big from UTG so have your strongest possible open range.

BB is probably crushing you with 99+ AJ+ KQ at widest here.

Yeah it's cheap preflop - but you're mostly just paying money to get screwed postflop.

Because of the whale you can't expect to win many pots trying to bluff and when you hit you've got to be concerned you're still behind to a big chunk of BB's range.

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