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2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot 2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot

08-02-2019 , 09:49 PM
$2/5 10-handed.
effective stacks: $800(V1) and $100(V2).

V2($100) button straddle on. Hero($1300) opens to $35 with JdJh from MP, HJ calls,V1($800) in CO calls, V2 raises all in,hero iso 3bet to $250,V1 calls.

V1(CO)- $800. An asian young guy who seems half decent and is quiet.
V2 (BT) - $100. Passive mid-aged white guy.
Hero(HJ) - $1300. TAG nitty image.


Flop($600): As 9s 4c.
Hero checks, V1 bets $150, hero? Should I bet this flop in the first place?

Last edited by maplestar; 08-02-2019 at 10:01 PM.
2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot Quote
08-03-2019 , 07:20 AM
V is probably not decent flatting and then calling 4-bet.
Gross spot. It's player dependent. Would V bluff with any pp?
I think V can have AQ, TT, 99 here. You have about 33% so you can call. Fold turn if he jams, although it's gross to fold to only a quarter pot bet, if you are balanced, JJ is at the bottom of your range.
2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot Quote
08-03-2019 , 11:19 AM
After your ISO raise preflop I think we want to be leading this ace high board. We have an advantage that we can get credit for all the AA, AK and AQ combos. Where are villain probably has none of the AA, some of the AK and all of the AQ combos.

Now when he bets ~20% of the pot it gets weird. So I'd give him credit for 50% AK (6), 50% AQ (6), AJs (1), 100% QQ (6), 100% TT (6), 1 combo of 99 (1), KQs (2), KJs (2), QJs (2). Of which we are ahead of TT, KQs, KJs, QJs (12 adjusted combos or ~35% of that range).

I think we peel one, and if the turn goes x-x we turn our hand into a bluff on the river.
2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot Quote
08-03-2019 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerisahobby
V is probably not decent flatting and then calling 4-bet.
Gross spot. It's player dependent. Would V bluff with any pp?
I think V can have AQ, TT, 99 here. You have about 33% so you can call. Fold turn if he jams, although it's gross to fold to only a quarter pot bet, if you are balanced, JJ is at the bottom of your range.
Perhaps, but keep in mind the dynamic here w the short stacked btn in addition to his position in the hand. There is a huge incentive for V to overcall-backjam a range that includes AA at a much higher clip than normal. When hero open-4bet isos, V still has a lot of things working in his favor to instead just call his continuing hands, still, including AA. Bottom line, he can be extremely strong here (without being bad at poker) and is immediately looking to build a side pot on A92. I think this is a very easy check fold for hero given all of above, the protected pot, and the overarching fact that we are probably wider than usual as an open-4bettor and V is probably narrower than usual as a dual pfc.
2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot Quote
08-03-2019 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Andy
After your ISO raise preflop I think we want to be leading this ace high board. We have an advantage that we can get credit for all the AA, AK and AQ combos. Where are villain probably has none of the AA, some of the AK and all of the AQ combos.

Now when he bets ~20% of the pot it gets weird. So I'd give him credit for 50% AK (6), 50% AQ (6), AJs (1), 100% QQ (6), 100% TT (6), 1 combo of 99 (1), KQs (2), KJs (2), QJs (2). Of which we are ahead of TT, KQs, KJs, QJs (12 adjusted combos or ~35% of that range).

I think we peel one, and if the turn goes x-x we turn our hand into a bluff on the river.
Do you bet your whole range on this WA/WB flop?Any bet sizing is a committing amount at this point given such a low SPR.
2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot Quote
08-03-2019 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maplestar
Do you bet your whole range on this WA/WB flop?Any bet sizing is a committing amount at this point given such a low SPR.
I think I would, how the action went preflop (with the player we're 3 betting all in and players behind), I would probably 3-bet pretty high on my value range. So AQo+, AQs+, A5s and then TT+ (Please comment on this, this might be too tight?).

So given that, my range consists of 24 under pairs (TT - KK), 3 sets of aces and 27 top pairs. So I think we have a balanced enough betting range here to bet, and I think 1/3 pot would probably be an efficient size.

Let me know what you think, but if we get shoved on with JJ, TT, maybe even A5s we fold.
2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot Quote
08-03-2019 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Andy
I think I would, how the action went preflop (with the player we're 3 betting all in and players behind), I would probably 3-bet pretty high on my value range. So AQo+, AQs+, A5s and then TT+ (Please comment on this, this might be too tight?).

So given that, my range consists of 24 under pairs (TT - KK), 3 sets of aces and 27 top pairs. So I think we have a balanced enough betting range here to bet, and I think 1/3 pot would probably be an efficient size.

Let me know what you think, but if we get shoved on with JJ, TT, maybe even A5s we fold.
I don't agree with your analysis. Just because we have advantage on certain board doesn't mean we must bet liberally. This is live poker! We need to consider many factors like SPR,our image and opponents' tendencies in order to exploit their weakness. I c/f vs passive players and check/call down vs aggressive clueless donks in this situation.
2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot Quote
08-03-2019 , 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maplestar
I don't agree with your analysis. Just because we have advantage on certain board doesn't mean we must bet liberally. This is live poker! We need to consider many factors like SPR,our image and opponents' tendencies in order to exploit their weakness. I c/f vs passive players and check/call down vs aggressive clueless donks in this situation.
That's cool. You asked if you should bet the flop, I gave you my reasoning on why I would.

So you would check/fold vs. a passive player who only bets out his strong hands and you would check/call vs. clueless donks. That seems reasonable, but if I understood your first post that isn't what we're faced with.

In the situation you laid out above we're playing a somewhat competent player who bet a 1/5 pot sized bet. I'm not sure we're in a better spot here, then we would have been if we maintained the betting lead and bet 1/3 the pot.

I guess as played I still maintain that if a blank turn goes x-x we bet/fold the river.
2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot Quote
08-03-2019 , 09:41 PM
I'd bet the flop myself, since only half the pot is protected. If the whole pot were protected, I'd check/fold.
2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot Quote
08-04-2019 , 05:59 AM
I prefer leading flop, maybe 200, and give up as played, villain may have tt or kq but other than that, we should mostly be behind, not to mention the other player all in.
2/5, JJ OP on ace flop in 3bet pot Quote

      
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