villian is a tight young guy. im a loose older guy. lets say he is 14/11 ish and i am 20/14 ish

eff stacks 1300

v raises in CO to 25...i call button with 45 sb folds bb defends

flop QQ7

bb checks and v bets 45

hero calls, bb folds

turn 8

v bets 95

hero calls

river 2

v bets 195

call river...i like the turn call because it sounds like you wont be able to raise turn and get paid on river

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Easy call Imo, not sure what there is to debate tbh, I can't imagine ever folding this river unless villan is super nitty

3b or fold pre. AP call river

ok hero calls

at first i thought about raising the river to get value from Qx, then i started to realize he was targeting Qx and i may be no good, so i tanked a bit...confuding spot because i was looking for low blank to raise river with and then he sized it too high to raise...expected him to size it low loke 150

so pretty close between call raise or fold and since you close action call seems best

v had KhTh

Haven't read responses:


There is no option other than call. When you say "this could go either way" I'm not even sure if the other way you are talking about is folding or raising.

IMO, this is a very obvious call and call is by far the best play.

14/11 is pretty nitty where villain never has 2 pair here and can only have Qx where x= T-A, AKhh, 77 and maaaaybe 88 that beats you as he can probably bet 88 with his image hoping everyone folds and assumes automatic Q when they miss.

I dont think i know how to fold the river.

Preflop - i dont like 3! with no card removal and I typically 3b those types w/ a polarized range and I honestly dont think folding pre makes much sense given stacks either.

So i guess nice hand?

Ya.

Fold pre. as played call. No point in calling pre or calling on the flop if we are going to make our hand, not make one aggressive action, and just fold. You can't be calling to specifically make a full house.

My observation is that tight players usually have played a few times. While a complete noob might miss that there is a potential flush out there, most players recognize that if someone is calling down a hand, they likely have a flush with this run out. Since tight players don't raise 32s pf, the odds your hand is good on the river is near zero.

The real problem with the hand is that you basically missed on the flop. You were never going to get paid off if you hit the FD if the villain couldn't beat it. The villain showed with his betting that you'd never got pot odds to call. The call pf is at best marginal. Given how this played out, you're probably best off to fold it.

In a vacuum I hate the call pre. But since you guys are 260 bbs deep and especially if there's a LP fish in the blinds who's also deep I think it's fine. Would normally 3 bet and flat a 4 bet this deep if it's not too big but 5x from CO is a big open. That's already an alarm bell unless there's something I'm missing. I don't think it's fair to just assume we're never good. Villain can easily be thin valuing trips especially if you're viewed to be loose. More info about villain? Does he bluff? Can he be triple barreling a hand with the A blocker?

sick spot and my first instinct was to call

but when you really think about it a nit isn't betting Qx this way OTR, so if he never bluffs you can just muck it

completely agree with pre...if i have a weakness its for calling, i def call in spots where raising and folding are better. i called pre because i was dealing with a tight range but its very thin and fold is better

however i bet a dollar to a donut that i win this hand at river when hearts miss

i dont fault myself for calling because its not obvious but at first i thought raise, then call, then fold and i think all 3 are in play but call is slightly worst

absolutely nothing has changed at the river from pre, we are at the same,spot where rasing or folding is better than calling

villains Qx hands are mere bluffcatchers now and he basically has 0 Qx boats

Agreed

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You're showing your age. A donut costs more than a dollar lots of places these days.

I remember when the saying made sense, though.

oof i may have pulled the trigger on my response too soon - as this whole reply i think raises great points.

Venice - why so near zero? TAGs on the verge of nit still use their image to turn hands w/ SDV into bluffs/etc, no?

I dont think I'd make a point of calling down TAGs in this spot on a paired board especially but if there's a board that a TAG/nit can show up with more bets than checks on the river its a runout like this imo. (So effectively, the distribution of value/bluffs is slightly skewed towards the center rather than weighted towards value.)

Not folding to 3 half pot bets. Pre is dumb to me.