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2/5 I got nothin' 2/5 I got nothin'

01-13-2014 , 02:02 AM
Might be posting a lot because I've just started 2/5 and I'm not feeling too confident yet.

I'm about 4 hands into the session (bought in for 1K) when villain in the HJ who is cracking jokes, is funny as hell, and has a huge stack in front of him (3K at least), raises to 25. I'm sure he's the table captain and I sensed immediately he was the best player at the table.

I pick up AKo OTB and 3bet to 75, he 4bets to 150, I 5bet to 325, he calmly asks how much I'm playing with, I say 1K exactly to start. He folds AKo face up and for fun I show my hand.

I haven't shown down since but I've picked up a small pot 3betting from the SB with AA, which never made flop. Table is pretty tight overall with not that many showdowns, some weak passives across the table, one of whom is on the BB for this hand.

the hand: about an hour into the session, I'm feeling a little more comfortable and flat villains 20 open from HJ with 67dd on the button. BB calls too.

Pot 56

Flop AJ3

bb checks, v checks, I check

turn Q

bb checks, v checks, I bet 40, bb folds, v calls

pot 136

river K

v checks, hero?

Last edited by attentionnoone; 01-13-2014 at 02:26 AM.
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01-13-2014 , 02:10 AM
I don't get what you're trying to do here, especially with zero relevant information.

FPS and nothing more.
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01-13-2014 , 02:13 AM
What position is villain in?
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01-13-2014 , 02:14 AM
How deep are you?
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01-13-2014 , 02:19 AM
I'm 1200 deep and villain is about 3K deep, all action is HJ vs BTN
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01-13-2014 , 02:20 AM
Well, no idea what the V has or what his range is, but an overcard that brings draws in is perfect for double barreling. If your plan is to bluff you may as well follow up if the best bluff card in the deck shows up on the river. *shrug*

You can credibly represent a flush that came in. Q's are folding, possibly aces and kings as well. I think 90 would be the right amount; $100+ looks more bluffy and $80- is too likely to get a crying call. If the player were worse than what you are giving him credit for, I'd raise bigger but if this guy is as good as you sense you want to make it look like value.

Another option would be to overbet the pot. Then it looks like you got your flush and you want to prison rape a 10. That's risking more money though so I personally wouldn't do it.
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01-13-2014 , 02:27 AM
Don't flat HJ open with 76s on the BTN. 3-bet or fold.

When the flop is checked to you, you need to use your position - bet. I'd definitely bet the flop and then consider almost always firing another sizable barrel on the turn if he calls the flop. He's going to c/c flop a lot and then c/f turn. The A scares him, and you're representing it well.

Turn bet is fine once it checks to you again, but it's nowhere near as good as a flop bet. You can no longer really rep the A. Now you're repping something like QJ or a flush draw.

I'd pot the river. His hand looks like KK or TT a lot. Mostly one of the 3 remaining combos of KK if I have to soul read. I think you can rep a flush very credibly.

If he does call, flip yor hand over and say "oh ****, diamonds?!" It's funny but also like a verbal freeroll **** you because you can actually pretend you misclick-read your cards as hearts and even though he wins, he made a losing call.
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01-13-2014 , 02:32 AM
I guess he can have a very weak A opening from HJ and then checking the flop. Doesn't change anything I wrote about though - if anything, it just makes the bluff more powerful.
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01-13-2014 , 02:35 AM
Flatting a small 4x open with 76s on the button is standard 100bb deep.
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01-13-2014 , 02:41 AM
Disagree about flatting here 100BB deep. Not standard.

But I saw OP posted he's 200BB+ deep. You can play the hand that deep for sure.

I'd probably 3-bet given villain as described is probably opening very wide pre and you can take it down a lot. Calling is an option too - especially if the blinds are droolers, will pay your strong hands off, and you want them to play the hand with you.
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01-13-2014 , 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman
Don't flat HJ open with 76s on the BTN. 3-bet or fold.

When the flop is checked to you, you need to use your position - bet. I'd definitely bet the flop and then consider almost always firing another sizable barrel on the turn if he calls the flop. He's going to c/c flop a lot and then c/f turn. The A scares him, and you're representing it well.

Turn bet is fine once it checks to you again, but it's nowhere near as good as a flop bet. You can no longer really rep the A. Now you're repping something like QJ or a flush draw.

I'd pot the river. His hand looks like KK or TT a lot. Mostly one of the 3 remaining combos of KK if I have to soul read. I think you can rep a flush very credibly.

If he does call, flip yor hand over and say "oh ****, diamonds?!" It's funny but also like a verbal freeroll **** you because you can actually pretend you misclick-read your cards as hearts and even though he wins, he made a losing call.
Heh, I really love this post and it makes me realize that I made a bunch of mistakes in this hand. I'll post my thoughts later about what I think what his range of hands looks like on the river.

I think I made several mistakes here, but the most duh obvious one is pre. Plenty of spots at the table, no need to go HU with the best player even with sticky blinds. I'd have to be reasonably sure both are going to call and I wasn't.

I also think the flop is an obvious bet just because it's so easy to b/f and we take it down enough.

I don't think betting that turn is a mistake, but there is another duh obv mistake in the OP, but I'll let the discussion simmer first.
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01-13-2014 , 05:43 AM
I bet 55 - 65 maybe you get a fold from a checked ace.
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01-13-2014 , 12:22 PM
the reason I didn't bet the flop is because I thought villains checking range was stronger than his betting range and when he checks, I put him on at least a pair with Ax being most likely

this is a dry board that I think he checks vs unknown and it's easy for him to bet/fold, so the way to bluff this is to float the flop, and check it back if he checks

on the turn, I was more than prepared to bet/fold and I think taking a stab when he checks is reasonable, though perhaps not optimum. the Qh hits a lot of my calling range but he already had something when he checked the flop and that card gave him added equity with gutters or two pair

I think his range on the river is exactly two pair. I think anything better than that, he c/rs a suddenly drawy turn. His hand isn't strong enough to c/r now, but too much showdown equity to fold, therefore I think he's on 2pair.

I bet 85 on the river since it's what I bet if I made a hand OTR. Villain tanked for a long time and kept asking if I was bluffing and cracking jokes to make me laugh. He finally called with AJss. Slowplayed it all the way and why?

After the session he told me that he figured me to be an internet cowboy after the AKo hand and decided to try and trap me. I made a mistake showing the first hand and probably should have let him think I had KK+.
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01-13-2014 , 01:23 PM
The whole point of showing (which should be reserved) is to get paid on your value hands later.

Think about that before you bet anywhere with 7 high.
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01-13-2014 , 01:46 PM
Yeah, lesson learned, why the hell would I want him to know what I had in that hand.

Also, I think if I size the river higher, he folds.

Merging your range on the river is the toughest thing to do in poker. A lot of people at high stakes overbet rivers with nuts and nothing (or at least they do when I rail them). I also wondered about that. There isn't actually much difference ev-wise vs people that play optimally, but I'm beginning to think overbetting is the road to riches with every hand on this river, but I might be results oriented obv
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01-13-2014 , 03:18 PM
dont show- ever

also once you bet turn you have to bet river, bet 70% pot
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01-13-2014 , 03:21 PM
I like the bluff given run out but agree the sizing needs to be larger.

You're giving him > 2.5:1 on a call.

I also think you're normally betting larger with a lot of your river value hands.

Make it at least $100.
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01-13-2014 , 04:27 PM
Well you put yourself in a sh*tty spot. You have to bet now with no showdown value. It sucks because I think you will get a cry calling from 2 pair. When calling with 67dd otb and a runout like this occurs I am just checking down and moving on. This board hits Vs raising range big time.
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01-13-2014 , 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by attentionnoone
the reason I didn't bet the flop is because I thought villains checking range was stronger than his betting range and when he checks, I put him on at least a pair with Ax being most likely

this is a dry board that I think he checks vs unknown and it's easy for him to bet/fold, so the way to bluff this is to float the flop, and check it back if he checks

on the turn, I was more than prepared to bet/fold and I think taking a stab when he checks is reasonable, though perhaps not optimum. the Qh hits a lot of my calling range but he already had something when he checked the flop and that card gave him added equity with gutters or two pair

I think his range on the river is exactly two pair. I think anything better than that, he c/rs a suddenly drawy turn. His hand isn't strong enough to c/r now, but too much showdown equity to fold, therefore I think he's on 2pair.

I bet 85 on the river since it's what I bet if I made a hand OTR. Villain tanked for a long time and kept asking if I was bluffing and cracking jokes to make me laugh. He finally called with AJss. Slowplayed it all the way and why?

After the session he told me that he figured me to be an internet cowboy after the AKo hand and decided to try and trap me. I made a mistake showing the first hand and probably should have let him think I had KK+.
He slow played it to keep the pot small with a marginal hand and to get guys like you to bet with garbage.
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01-13-2014 , 05:38 PM
Why are we betting? There has to be some better hands in our range to bluff the turn with (such as gutters/pair +gutters, flush draws). A stone cold bluff just doesn't make sense. Especially when we are on a board like this where people will pot control the flop and c/c down weak Ax/Qx hands. And also when a lot of those exact hands either hit 2 pair or a straight.
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01-13-2014 , 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by attentionnoone
I bet 85 on the river since it's what I bet if I made a hand OTR.
Shoulda bet 90, he woulda folded. ^_^

Seriously though, it sounds like he came close to folding his hand.
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01-13-2014 , 07:04 PM
yeah, in a way I agree that I should never be in the spot at the river

if he has a hand on the flop, it usually improved on the turn, pre flop is suboptimal and my turn bet is just plain bad, better to bet flop and be done with it imo

however, he was so close to folding that if I make it pot on river i feel like he would have folded but I don't know. Sizing on river is only interesting street imo
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