Hey,

so its a 2/5 1500 effective. I just sat down little over an hour ago. Have been winning a lot by aggression and only few times at showdowns. Have 3bet a lot also. Totally different from this table, everybody were limp/callinga lot and only saw 1 3betting that i remember from the villain in the HH:
CO - is there with his buddy, they both play for a living for sure. Both limp a lot and i have not seen CO raise preflop not even once. They have been really tight but im sure they understand poker a lotshhh...board textures etc
Full Ring 2/5 1500 eff
EP limps, Hero Hijack to 30, CO call... limp call
Flop K48r 95$
Hero Cbets 65, CO raises to 165... hero is a donk and calls and c/f turn.
I was thinking a lot on the flop after i called. This will signal weakness and ofc his not gonna shutdown with the bluff after that sign. Should have called faster if i take that line imo.

Well that was the worst line to take also i guess. There is just nothing he reps. Only AK,44,88 - so so few combos. But i just didnt think he is capable of bluffing given my view of him - or he just uses that image vs me he knows im thinking alot and capable and with a huge aggression.

Such a meh spot, if we start folding that hand on the flop wtf are we not folding then :P. And taking a c/f line on the turn is also stupid.

Gotta call it down and pay off the nit?

Good luck!

My rule of thumb is that if you cant confortably bet/fold or bet/call then just c/c it down. As played dont tank call then cf blank turns

Also theres nothing except possibly kqss thats going to call your cbet that you have beat

uhhh really? They play for a living and both limp a lot and never raise pre??? uhhhh....

Just fold to the raise on the flop (if you're going to fold turn). These kinds of villains don't bluff, he probably doesn't play KQ this way, and there are no draws to semi-bluff. So he has a set.

It seems ridiculously weak, but there's just no sense in stacking off 300BBs with TPTK vs a nit.

We aren't going to get much money from this guy by value betting. Our money will be made by bluffing him off of medium strength hands.

No reason to worry too much about how to stack a nit. It just isn't going to happen profitably, unless you have the nuts.

Focus on identifying the weaker players and attacking them.

boy is he repping thin

Having c/c as a default line is a very costly rule of thumb.

Flop is a super easy b/f. There isn't really much that beats us. But he basically always has one of those hands when we get raised.

Obviously don't check the flop. Even if its true that the only hand he calls with that we beat is KQ (he can have all the KQ combos), there are still then 8 combos of hands we beat and only 7 that beat us. So its a bet.

Then add in the fact he can probably have KJ (definitely the suited ones), he likely doesn't have KK. Its an easy bet. Its not a slam dunk spot where you are making a ton of money. But the difference between small and big winners is ability to get value in marginal spots. Everyone can get stacks in when you flop top set and they have a strong hand. The real thing you need to learn to do in order to be a big winner is to extract the most value you can when you have hands that are marginally ahead of their range.

Two additional things:
1) Who cares how we are going to win "most" of our money from this type of player? It may well be true that most of our profit comes from pushing him off medium strength hands. But thats not relevant to the question of whether we can make money by value betting this hand.

2) The only reason not to bet this flop is if it causes us to make additional mistakes. Because it is a fairly marginal spot (although I think less so than some are intimating) if, for example, we incorrectly call raises after betting, its probably a -EV bet.

I don't feel like doing the math, but assume that he can in fact only continues with KQ and sets. And that he raises sets and flats KQ. It may well be -EV to bet when you consider the whole tree of flop decisions because we are calling a raise drawing nearly dead nearly 50% of the time.

So if you don't think you can b/f, maybe check. But you really need to learn how to do it because extracting value by b/f is the most profitable thing you can do in live poker.

what was the turn card? doesnt make sense for him to raise a set on the flop against your aggro image. if a blank comes on the turn you really shouldnt be folding. if you fold the turn you shouldnt call the raise on the flop.

If we think he has much of a bluffing range on the flop its probably okay to call the flop and fold the turn though. Its fairly rare for an LLSNL player to follow up on a bluff on that type of board. Once hero calls the raise I would expect him to assume hero has a strong hand and give up his bluffs.

As I said above, I don't think he is ever really bluffing the flop. So we should fold. But if calling the flop was correct, c/f the turn is almost certainly also correct.

Whenever we are in a hand with a player we feel is competent but has a seriously low VPIP or raise percentage and/or rarely/never gets out of line, we can comfortable bet/fold.

The problem many thinking players have in this spot is they think, "c/r'ing me or raising me on a dry board with a set doesn't make sense because he should know I'm going to bet flop and bet turn and then he could extract more money out of me if he just lets me barrel and then raises me later. Therefore, he must be making a move...."

No.

We have to remember not all players play like us. For a lot of LLSNL players, they play caveman poker. They bet when they are strong, and check/call when they are medium and drawing, and check/fold when they are weak.

When they are monster, they raise.

The other way I think about these spots is if I'm up against a villain that only raises < 5% of the time, then its just not profitable bluff catching him. And that is exactly what AK is in this spot, its bluff catching because V is repping a set. Even if V bluffs in this spot 25% of the time, that is 25% out of 5% so that is like 1.25% of the time which means it's just not profitable calling him down longterm. Fine, let him have this bluff since his raise frequency is just so insanely low its not going to impact me longterm anyway.

So adding all this up, against villains like this, easy bet/fold. Also, don't give any signs you folded a big hand, just fold as if you were caught with air. Don't start leveling yourself that all of a sudden this villain is going to start floating and bluffing you and reading your soul. No. they don't do that. They just play the way they play...

Not trying to be a dick, but I think you are lacking some fundamentals and understanding of winning poker by saying the above statement.

Playing as tight as you describe above is not how players who play for a living play because playing that tight will only give you a winrate of around 3bb/hr at best. Raising preflop and taking down pots with a c-bet is a huge component to winning poker and vital to augmenting the "other" aspects of our total game like: image, perceived image, ranges, bluff frequencies, deception, etc.

I would say it is virtually "impossible" to play poker for a living and to rarely raise and just limp limp limp all the time hoping to flop/turn gin.

Read Tommy Angelo's book, "Elements of Poker"

In it, he talks about the concept of Reciprocity. In a nutshell, Every time we make a +EV play our villains do not make, we win. Every time we avoid a -EV play our villains will not avoid we win.

anyways, just food for thought

Thank you guys for amazing answers.
I see a merit for calling a flop raise to hope that he shuts down his bluffing but dont see it as the best option kind of a top2.
So as u guys told i agree on being totally weak vs this kind of reg UNTIL further development of history. With my image vs his image i cant understand why would he raise sets tho but not gonna get$ in if he doesnt also tho.
Eh fn limping nit regs no point in paying them off, dont give action dont get action right :P.
Good luck at the tables and amazing answers in such a short time!




Location: Las Vegas, NV, O_o uhm okay.

Call flop raise and check/evaluate turn. Probably check/calling turn too. Folding flop would be the worst option, IMHO.

I reread thinking exactly the same thing.

I have to agree very much so. Even though most good players would agree flatting on super dry board probably gets you the most, at the lower levels a raise on a super dry board means just what he's saying. They instantly think..I hit it, let's get it in.

Just to clarify the confusion that they do play for a living.
" I just sat down little over an hour ago" "only saw 1 3betting that i remember from the villain in the HH:" Also i did hear them talking about making money in poker etc.

Surprisingly there are regs in the world who dont raise any time during 25 hands but do limp few of those and 3b once so 3b%=4+....9? Dont know how many raises were in front during those massive 25 hands.

I hope this cleared this easy confusion.

Listen to DgiHarris...he knows what he's talking about. Even if he can't handle the bright lights of TV stardom.

That's okay, DGI...it was probably the stupid hat that threw you off.

I still think you rock, DGI

just because they make money doesn't mean they are playing for a living.

i make money. i work.

how much did he bet on the turn?