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2/5 Help with river

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07-11-2017 , 02:49 PM

JB Clark

banned

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673

Hero opens to 20 MP1 with K

1900 behind

60ish unkmown white male flats button. Bought in for 1k max last orbit and this is his first hand. BB defends.

K

Hero bets 45, button calls

K

Hero bets 75, button calls

3

Hero?

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07-11-2017 , 02:52 PM

OSUTexan

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,210

Fold pre.

As played, bet/fold 1/2 pot on river.

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07-11-2017 , 03:33 PM

ronrabbit

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,662

Betting the river isn't wrong here, but the way this board has ran out what can we realistically get called by?
Check calling this river let's villan bet his missed draws which I think gives us more opportunity to make money off this hand. Maybe he turns up with a boat here, but that s*** happens and would be pretty sick.
I would prefer this open on the co or btn, if I'm hj or earlier this should be a fold, it really doesn't flop well and if I'm opening earlier than the co I'm expecting 3+ to the flop and k8 just doesn't flop well enough for that.....case and point we hit gin in this hand and aren't sure we are good...

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07-11-2017 , 03:36 PM

JB Clark

banned

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673

Nah im sure we are good. Its a matter of most value and what his range is to get to river, which im still confused about

Can we ever get value by betting and if so, how much?

Pocket pairs check back for showdown value and might call river, but air has to bet

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07-11-2017 , 03:39 PM

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

125

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07-11-2017 , 03:48 PM

randomcards

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 794

I like a check/call here. Gets villain to bluff with Diamonds, keeps price lower against villains strong hands.

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07-11-2017 , 03:51 PM

OSUTexan

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,210

Sometimes the best answer is the simplest. Basically could be calling with any pocket pairs 55+ on river and (without more knowledge of V) will check back most hands other than a K. Don't like giving up the value on such dry boards when ur unsure that a villain has it in him to bluff the river with air.

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07-11-2017 , 07:17 PM

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Bet or check either is okay imo.

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07-11-2017 , 07:53 PM

ImAllInNow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,856

Bet/fold river seems right. If we had K

or any other non-diamonds, I'd rather check/call.

Also preflop is a bit loose, you're on your way to opening all suited Kings from MP at this rate.

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07-11-2017 , 10:27 PM

#10

JB Clark

banned

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673

Question really is,what size to use. V cant have much so sizing it down seems right. 125 seems good.

Im just so confused as to what he gets to river with. These old white guys are hard to read and they just dont bluff often. I felt he had diamonds as opposed to a pair but idk. Maybe he does get stubborn and call turn with mid pairs

Hero checks, villain gtabs a stack of greens, then thinks better of it and raps the table.

Sigh.

125 seems like a good number but idk, maybe even smaller

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07-11-2017 , 10:34 PM

#11

Calldown88

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 500

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB Clark

Most likely he has a pocket pair like 77-JJ and will pay off on the river. I would make it 175 here because at this point the only value hands you're repping are Kx and pocket Aces.

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07-11-2017 , 10:55 PM

#12

ImAllInNow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,856

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB Clark

125 seems like a good number but idk, maybe even smaller

Yeah, $125 or maybe even $100 or $90 seems good. You have so few bluffs here probably (assuming you're not 3-barreling flush draws).

You could make a case for having two different bet sizes in this spot:

1. ($90) The size that is trying to make a missed flush fold or a pocket pair call. You can do this with, like JTs/T9s/98s type hands that don't have a diamond and with a weak King or AA/QQ/JJ.

2. ($250 or $350) The size that is trying to make a King either call or fold. You can do this with boats, AK, straights, and some of your missed diamonds.

Last edited by ImAllInNow; 07-11-2017 at 11:03 PM.

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07-12-2017 , 12:20 AM

#13

outdonked

banned

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 547

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB Clark

Hero opens to 20 MP1 with K

1900 behind

Would you have played this hand if you had K

or any other unsuited combo? --- Ha! ... Ha! ... ha! .. You see my friend, here is the crux of the problem. Do you understand?

I may say that KJs is the bottom of our range outside of the blinds. Maybe KTs in volume pots but I'm not going crazy about. Only problems on top of problems. We need to hit twice to make a hand above "one pair". First we need to flop a draw and after that need to turn or river a flush or, hit it twice with a King and a Ten. That's very hard and very expensive to play. I rather play A5s, A4s or even T9s. At least I have some straights to work with. But K8, .... No!

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07-12-2017 , 01:46 AM

#14

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563

So we are really hoping OMC flatted us pre with K7s-K5s?

I'd rather stake my horse on the possibility he can bluff a busted flush draw rather than calling us with a worse made hand. If he had a king he would probably raise the turn. He's got slow played boats (44/22) and a slew of busted flush draws. Seems borderline absurd to think he hero calls 66 or something here vs. an unknown.

x/c seems obvious

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07-12-2017 , 07:08 AM

#15

BadlyBeaten

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,300

Well, it seems as if he's just calling down for some reason. So it seems as if the issue is merely whether our hand is good enough for another bet.

I'd say probably, but it does open up a can of WTF if we get raised. Maybe we just bet full pot and believe that his response reps his cards. In those cases when he has the case king, well, that's poker.

I would prob. play the hand differently so I wouldn't be in this spot. Prob c/c turn and c/c river. But I can't justify that line, so maybe I play bad.

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 07-12-2017 at 07:16 AM.

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07-12-2017 , 09:17 AM

#16

JB Clark

banned

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673

Well i knew i had best hand because i think v always raises the turn with better given how i sized it down and anyway, cooler if im beat.

I suck at river sizing because i dont give people credit for calling down light, even when they do.

I honestly dont know what v could possibly have here but mid pairs that can bluff catch seems about right. If i had bare diamonds i doubt i give up on river.

Thanks for all the comments

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07-12-2017 , 10:53 AM

#17

kekeeke

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,306

bet 200 and watch his face turn to obvious pain

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07-12-2017 , 11:49 PM

#18

adam levine

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,569

We have diamonds which blocks some of villains flush draws/air that will need to bet OTR.Plus the fact that the front door flush missed makes this a bet, bet the same sizing you would with missed draws.

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