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2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel? 2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel?

07-11-2014 , 07:17 AM
7pm at the Rio. Mix of young guys and a couple older guys at the table. Play has been fairly aggressive so far. Hero sat down about 2 orbits ago.

Villain 1 is a white guy in his 30s from the UK. Has been pretty loose preflop but not quite as loose post. $335.

Villain 2 is a white guy in his 20s. Wearing headphones and a hoody. In a hand with hero one orbit ago he called my $20 raise from SB, x/c $30 on a J 6 3 flop, x/c $65 on a 6 turn (frowned a bit before calling, didn't seem to like it), and quickly led $130 on a Q river (I folded). He starts with $800.

Hero is a white guy in his late 20s. Aside from the hand above, I've had a hand in which I led for $30 into $40 from BB in a 4way limped straddle pot on A 7 5 (two players called), I x/c an old man's $80 bet on a T turn, and x/f for $135 on a K river. In another hand I b/f a 986r flop after raising pre UTG when BB made a large flop x/r. I think these actions suggest that I at least have a fold button postflop, although in general I've been pretty active over a short period of time. Start with $700.

On to the hand:

V1 straddles $10 OTB. Folds to hero in HJ. I raise to $35 with J 8. BTN calls, V2 calls in SB. $105 in pot.

Flop Q 6 3. V2 checks, hero bets $65, V1 calls, V2 calls. $300 in pot.

Turn Q 6 3 K. V2 checks. Hero ???

As far as ranges go, I think V1 is likely to be on a medium strength hand or weakish draw (i.e. as weak as gutter +bdfd) since I had previously seen him raise the flop in position with a NFD, while it seems like V2 may have a med strength hand or a decent draw (based on what happened in the previous hand I think it's likely he can play his draws more slowly). If I bet big on the turn I think I can represent a hand like KKK, KQ, or AK to fold out medium strength hands like Q9/TT/99 as well as possibly folding out NFDs in V2's range. The downside is that there are some Kx hands in these villains' ranges (KQ, KT, maybe K J for backdoor possibilities, etc), and I never expect those hands to fold when I bet this turn. Does a turn barrel have merit here or is it too spewy?

Last edited by Axel Foley; 07-11-2014 at 07:31 AM.
2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel? Quote
07-11-2014 , 09:19 AM
Your active image may not support much FE, nonetheless I think betting is best here.

V1 likely leads turn with a made hand, perhaps even x/r flop with KQ. Shorty V2 also may have raised (AI) flop with a made hand or strong draw.

If checking, think C/F unless V2 comes along. We have a capped pay-off vs. V1. If checked through, it will be very difficult for us to bluff a missed river which occurs most of the time.

Pre – I’d fold this hand vs. a 34bbs effective loose straddler who is ip.
2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel? Quote
07-11-2014 , 11:59 AM
I agree with Samo in folding this hand preflop with a button straddle on...don't like playing double gapped suited connectors with 70 BB effective (30 BB in straddler's case).

Pretty bad spot though to be put in....V1 called the flop bet and now has $235 left with a $300 pot. You either put him all in or be prepared to be priced in to call if you bet small. I like slowing down here and checking the turn...
2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel? Quote
07-11-2014 , 01:27 PM
Pre is probably too loose unless BTN and CO are nitty.

Think I like a double barrel here. SB should have enough 45s/NFD/QTs/QJs/AQ for it to be profitable. Probably have to triple most rivers though to fold NFD and AQ. Sucks when we run into the KQ/sets portion of the range and get c/r but he has weaker more often than he has those hands. Not too worried about straddler since he should have a pretty wide range for defending straddle and would expect him to peel flop with any pair, gutter + BDFD, ect. and his stack is short enough to bet/call vs. him anyway.
2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel? Quote
07-11-2014 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861
Pre is probably too loose unless BTN and CO are nitty.

Think I like a double barrel here. SB should have enough 45s/NFD/QTs/QJs/AQ for it to be profitable. Probably have to triple most rivers though to fold NFD and AQ. Sucks when we run into the KQ/sets portion of the range and get c/r but he has weaker more often than he has those hands.
Shouldn't he never have a set? With a two tone flop I expect him to lead big on flop or x/r a set pretty much always in a 3way pot. Can only picture a super weak tight villain playing 2pr+ that slowly.
2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel? Quote
07-12-2014 , 01:56 AM
Without specific reads I wouldn't say never but yeah somewhat discounted. Which makes it even more of a double barrel imo.
2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel? Quote
07-12-2014 , 02:08 AM
Pre flop is bad. Stacks are shallow and btn defends too much. You want to raise with like 88+, AT+, KJ+. Flop is fine and turn bet is fine only if you think he can fold draws and Qx a lot. Villains love to put you on AK
2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel? Quote
07-21-2014 , 07:38 PM
Results:

I lead out $200 on the turn. V1 shoves for $35 more, V2 folds, I call. I don't think V1 realizes his shove is only for $35 more because he quickly says, "If you call me that quick I must be crushed." I say, "No, I'm only on a draw." He tables K 6.

Board bricks, V1 doubles up.

Sets up interesting dynamics later on when V1 raises in MP, folds to me OTB and I call with A9s, BB calls, and flop comes 9 9 4.

Spoiler:
Unfortunately, V1 raised 9 4 in that hand
2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel? Quote
07-21-2014 , 09:22 PM
I haven't read your results post yet.

As others have said, just fold pre. Straddles shrink effective stacks considerably. Would you play this hand for a raise if there was no straddle and you were sitting on $300?

As played, this is probably the best barrel card you could ask for. It hits our perceived range and is unlikely to improve either villain's flop calling range unless they have KQ or KhXh. I would bet bw $180 and $200 planning to fold to V2 shove (and obv calling shorty).

Here's the high variance deal though - if V2 flats our turn barrel, we have to shove every river. Weeeeeeee! (Happy you played J8s?)
2/5 Good Spot for Turn Barrel? Quote

      
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