Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-22-2014, 11:20 AM   #1
HmrHed
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 208
2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

V - To immediate left - tight player who has been sucked out on about 4 times in two hours for big pots (not by me) - I perceive a little tilt. 80
Me - 500 79
V raised all in 80 fold to me and I call? Thoughts?
HmrHed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 11:33 AM   #2
trucdouf
veteran
 
trucdouf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,215
Depends on how you feel. Definitely not a +EV call, and not very good odds at just over 2:1.

But there's no action to come, he's a tilt monkey. I could go either way.

If you call, never showing unless you win the pot and give him one last suckout.

I'd probably just fold, there will be plenty of better marginal spots.
trucdouf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 11:36 AM   #3
Richard Parker
banned
 
Richard Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Right Side of Variance
Posts: 13,951
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by HmrHed View Post
V - To immediate left - tight player who has been sucked out on about 4 times in two hours for big pots (not by me) - I perceive a little tilt. 80
Me - 500 79
V raised all in 80 fold to me and I call? Thoughts?
This question leaves very little room for discussion.
Richard Parker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 11:41 AM   #4
Jay S
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Balancing by misreading my hand
Posts: 1,446
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

I just... what???? Against ATC, our best case scenario:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.118% 46.99% 02.13% 985655348 44624623.00 { 9s7s }
Hand 1: 50.882% 48.75% 02.13% 1022667806 44624623.00 { random }
Jay S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 11:44 AM   #5
HmrHed
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 208
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
This question leaves very little room for discussion.
I was trying to leave it as broad as possible, actually.
HmrHed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 11:51 AM   #6
fitzthetaxman
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 768
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

No gamble, no future. Just kidding. This is what the dealer in my local game always says and I find it hilarious.

In all seriousness, you posted asking if a call with nine high is good. It is not.

Side Note: 97ss is such a freaking monster for some reason.
fitzthetaxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 11:57 AM   #7
Richard Parker
banned
 
Richard Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Right Side of Variance
Posts: 13,951
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by HmrHed View Post
I was trying to leave it as broad as possible, actually.
For what purpose?

We're talking about 16bb vs a "tight" player while we're holding a low equity hand.

Do you want to discuss how much tilt could affect him and his range?

Do you want to discuss what our equity is in this situation?

Do you want to discuss the impact of your image when you turn over your hand?

Do you want to discuss the implied value of pushing his tilt even further?

List can go on and on, and without any specific direction, it would also go nowhere.

There just isn't much content for discussion, and it would require someone else to build a context, in which you could simply provide right now, before anything of value could come out of this discussion.
Richard Parker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:00 PM   #8
Playbig2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,454
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

terrible call.

tight players who go on tilt will never play ATC like that ever.
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:12 PM   #9
HmrHed
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 208
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Fair enough - calling 9 high isn't normally my thing, but any credence whatsoever to "live cards" when the action is dead in the hand? If my stack was 900 would it be a closer call? Because there is no more action on any street - is my hand more favorable to strt, flush draws?
HmrHed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:12 PM   #10
HmrHed
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 208
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
terrible call.

tight players who go on tilt will never play ATC like that ever.
I like this point.
HmrHed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:13 PM   #11
brojaysimpson
old hand
 
brojaysimpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,274
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by HmrHed View Post
V - To immediate left - tight player who has been sucked out on about 4 times in two hours for big pots (not by me) - I perceive a little tilt. 80
Me - 500 79
V raised all in 80 fold to me and I call? Thoughts?
sucked out on 4 times in 2 hours for big pots? You must've been at my table.

Otherwise. I hope this is a joke post. 79s is AT BEST flipping but more than likely far behind his range. I think a better quesion is what were your thoughts/reasoning to call?
brojaysimpson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:14 PM   #12
brojaysimpson
old hand
 
brojaysimpson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,274
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by HmrHed View Post
Fair enough - calling 9 high isn't normally my thing, but any credence whatsoever to "live cards" when the action is dead in the hand? If my stack was 900 would it be a closer call? Because there is no more action on any street - is my hand more favorable to strt, flush draws?
The bad call has nothing to do with your stack size. It's a bad call because his range has 79s crushed.
brojaysimpson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:37 PM   #13
Richard Parker
banned
 
Richard Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Right Side of Variance
Posts: 13,951
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by HmrHed View Post
Fair enough - calling 9 high isn't normally my thing, but any credence whatsoever to "live cards" when the action is dead in the hand? If my stack was 900 would it be a closer call? Because there is no more action on any street - is my hand more favorable to strt, flush draws?
Effective stack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HmrHed View Post
Because there is no more action on any street - is my hand more favorable to strt, flush draws?
You're actually getting it backwards. A hand like yours, you want effective stack to be as high as possible, not less.

Let's put it this way:

If you have 20% hand equity to a hand, it's only profitable if you have more than 20% pot equity as well.

In this scenario, you are contributing ~50% to the pot, and your hand equity is much lower than 50%, thus negative EV.
Richard Parker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:39 PM   #14
SunChips
old hand
 
SunChips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Baltic and Mediterranian
Posts: 1,442
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Call. This is a great spot to work on your post-river game.

If you aren't planning on bluffing post-river then fold.

edit: if you are playing 25-50 you can call here too.

double edit: if he is running really bad then your hand is pretty much a lock and you can call also.

triple edit: if another player had called and you have the opportunity to bluff into a dry side pot, this will be a good play as well.

quadfecta edit: if you really aren't joking here and this is a serious post, then ignore everything I said and read all the previous responses.
SunChips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:52 PM   #15
fitzthetaxman
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 768
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunChips View Post
Call. This is a great spot to work on your post-river game.

If you aren't planning on bluffing post-river then fold.

edit: if you are playing 25-50 you can call here too.

double edit: if he is running really bad then your hand is pretty much a lock and you can call also.

triple edit: if another player had called and you have the opportunity to bluff into a dry side pot, this will be a good play as well.

quadfecta edit: if you really aren't joking here and this is a serious post, then ignore everything I said and read all the previous responses.
I lol'd
fitzthetaxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 02:09 PM   #16
HmrHed
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 208
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

I get the picture - thanks for the harrassm... ehm, responses. lol. I knew better - no seriously it was helpful. I play looser when I'm winning and it helps to refocus on fundamentals
Spoiler:

Last edited by HmrHed; 05-22-2014 at 02:32 PM.
HmrHed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 03:37 PM   #17
beauvanlaanen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
beauvanlaanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,490
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

never a call
beauvanlaanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 04:22 PM   #18
ValueBluff
journeyman
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by HmrHed View Post
If my stack was 900 would it be a closer call?
Lol how does this have any effect on the question? Doesn't matter if your stack is $80 or $1,000,000.
ValueBluff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 08:36 PM   #19
HmrHed
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 208
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValueBluff View Post
Lol how does this have any effect on the question? Doesn't matter if your stack is $80 or $1,000,000.
Idk - you're the genius.
HmrHed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 09:14 PM   #20
Donafy
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 175
Obviously you're never ahead, and you're not getting odds. The only reason this is ever a call is if you want "maniac equity". Say "Ok I'll gamble with you." Turn your hand face up. No one will fold to you for the rest of forever.
Donafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 09:28 PM   #21
donkatruck
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,211
Re: 2/5 Good, Bad, or Ugly

You only make this call if somehow the table is better with tight old nit with 160 and you 80 less. Seriously, 97o is not a bluff catcher heads up. It's going to be 2-1 against just about any hand or worse.
donkatruck is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive