2/5 Getting x/min raised on the turn - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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2/5 Getting x/min raised on the turn

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09-09-2019 , 08:19 PM

pluribus

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 57

No reads on Villain who is a MAWG. Being stereotypical, he doesn't seem like a winning player.

Table is full of loose limp callers so I've been punishing with larger opens which we'll see here.

OTTH 2/5 NL

Effective stack: 1k

Preflop Hero in CO with Q

Villain open limps UTG.
Hero opens to 30.
BB fish calls with ATC.
UTG villain calls.

Flop (3 players) ($90): Q

x x. Hero bets 50.
Only UTG calls.

Turn (2 players) ($190):Q

Villain checks.
Hero bets 125.
Villain x/r to 250.

Hero?

It would be great if folks could come up with their thoughts on this spot before clicking the spoiler.

Spoiler:

Last edited by pluribus; 09-09-2019 at 08:28 PM.

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09-09-2019 , 08:27 PM

mrpotto

grinder

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 551

I think its a fairly easy fold. People, especially MAWGs, don’t make random x-min raises with a hand that is behind TPGK. I think the random limp caller is capable of mixing in some AQs here and with a somewhat non scary board, he might not always be raising sets either on the flop. I mean I guess from time to time he can be getting frisky with the nut flush draw that picked up a pair on the turn but the default play for a passive player would be to just call there. GF

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09-09-2019 , 08:38 PM

football0020

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 317

Typical case of the baluga theorem, easy fold.

Preflop and flop are standard. I would be checking back turn though, never getting three streets here. You can then call a reasonable bet on safe rivers, or target middling pairs with a bet if checked to.

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09-09-2019 , 08:40 PM

jpsychlady

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,588

I would check back the turn. The straight draw got there and by checking you may get ? to lead into you on the river and you could prob call.
Just fold the turn. I doubt there are too many, if any, bluffs in his range. You don’t even beat a good Q

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09-09-2019 , 10:01 PM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,237

Against a villain who has seemed tight and has not otherwise min raised I'm giving up almost everything to the first min raise. Top pair good kicker is a trivial fold. Even over pairs I'm folding the first time a villain does this. I would want either a monster hand (set/straight) or a good draw (flush/combo draw).

A lot of villains have no hands other then sets/straights in this situation. The ones that do have bluffs are likely to have something like Ad4d that has a lot of outs. The annoying situation is opponents raising with moderate hands to see how serious you are or with air bluffs but those are the exception and it will generally be obvious quickly if villain is that sort.

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09-10-2019 , 08:13 AM

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

When a loose passive X/R turn, TP/J kick is an ez fold. His range could be slow-played KK+/55/22/43s/65s, even AQ.

Flop - size-up larger for value vs these opponents.

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09-10-2019 , 08:30 AM

johnny_on_the_spot

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Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 11,608

Is V opening hands UTG 6x that warrant a call from QJo? Realistically, what are we hoping we get value from?

I’m not saying i fold this in game, but we should probably discuss the merits of calling vs the other possible plays

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09-10-2019 , 08:35 AM

johnny_on_the_spot

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Also lol at anyone worried about V having 43 in his UTG 6x opening range.

This is like the MUBSYist thing to think about.

About a zillion times more worrisome is AA/KK/QQ (though unlikely)/AQ/KQ

Ranging Villians is about what they actually could have a realistic % of the time, not what the nuts are and assume V got there when it’s super highly unlikely they hold the specific hand that makes the nuts. We, the caller from the CO, have a way higher % chance of having the nuts on this board than UTG MAWG opening to 6x

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09-10-2019 , 08:44 AM

jpsychlady

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,588

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot

QJ was the opener, not the caller.

Yes, ranging and the straight is in his range. Do you play live?
The point being that hero beats nothing really and should fold

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09-10-2019 , 08:47 AM

#10

Javanewt

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,780

Grunch.

I fold this. We have top pair / medium kicker. Average players are almost never bluffing here, and there is not really a hand worse than ours to turn into a bluff.

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09-10-2019 , 09:26 AM

#11

johnny_on_the_spot

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsychlady

QJ was the opener, not the caller.

Yes, ranging and the straight is in his range. Do you play live?
The point being that hero beats nothing really and should fold

my mistake, i read it as UTG opened to 30 and hero called in CO.

read the post directly above the one you quoted and it's obvious that's what my thought process was based on

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09-10-2019 , 09:02 PM

#12

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

KQo and QJo are clear folds but Does everyone fold AQ/KK/AA here too or peel a street? It’s dumb when they show you some random pair or weak Qx trying to freeze action but this is generally nutted too, and sometimes they just blast rivers just cuz

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09-10-2019 , 09:35 PM

#13

Spanishmoon

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,518

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minatorr

If they’re red Aa/kk/Ak I’m probably folding. We can call it “suited Baluga” or something

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09-10-2019 , 09:35 PM

#14

chrissygolf

banned

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 331

why on earth did you bet the turn?

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09-11-2019 , 11:51 AM

#15

pluribus

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissygolf

why on earth did you bet the turn?

To get value from all other one-pair hands and flush draws. I know this is only a two streets of value type hand and I'd rather get those two streets early while their draws are still live.

Am I crazy?

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09-11-2019 , 12:07 PM

#16

AlanBostick

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,489

Turn is an easy-peasy bet/fold. Why bet the turn? To get value from worse.

OP: Don't. Include. Results. Not even hidden with spoiler tags.

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09-11-2019 , 01:10 PM

#17

jpsychlady

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,588

Quote:

Originally Posted by pluribus

I like to check for pot control and to possibly get him to lead/pay off a river bet. I think all under pairs are folding to a bet on the turn. So you’re targeting QT and flush draws on the turn and most would fold to a 2 barrel.
If you do bet and get raised it’s a pretty easy fold

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09-12-2019 , 04:22 PM

#18

mackattack45

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 60

Even though we don't have a diamond, I like a fold.

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09-12-2019 , 05:23 PM

#19

jdr0317

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Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Check/minraise is often the nuts. If this guy leveled you with like 54 to lay the winner down, more power to him.

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09-12-2019 , 07:31 PM

#20

MikeStarr

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Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

Check/minraise is often the nuts. If this guy leveled you with like 54 to lay the winner down, more power to him.

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You mean its almost always the nuts, right?

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09-12-2019 , 07:54 PM

#21

Playbig2000

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a recreational player's UTG limp/call then minraise the turn range is gonna be stronger than top pair jack kicker. That's enough to easily fold.

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09-13-2019 , 10:11 AM

#22

jdr0317

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

You mean its almost always the nuts, right?

Hey it’s not always the nuts. Like in this hand, it was only top set! Though that might be the bottom of his range.

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09-13-2019 , 12:19 PM

#23

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,585

X flop - if you are betting flop. X turn.

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09-13-2019 , 02:07 PM

#24

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

Easy fold for sure. If you are behind you are drawing dead. Also, he was a UTG limper too so his range is generally stronger overall.

BTW, I disagree with folks who say check the turn...I think it is a clear bet/fold. Yes you only have a two street hand, but you won't get a river bet called unless you are beaten, so betting the turn makes all his flush draws pay and you may even get 54 or 64 that called the flop.

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09-13-2019 , 02:13 PM

#25

AlanBostick

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Quote:

Originally Posted by shorn7

BTW, I disagree with folks who say check the turn...I think it is a clear bet/fold. Yes you only have a two street hand, but you won't get a river bet called unless you are beaten, so betting the turn makes all his flush draws pay and you may even get 54 or 64 that called the flop.

DING DING DING

We have a winner.

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