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2/5 Flush gets there 2/5 Flush gets there

07-06-2017 , 11:50 AM
Eff stacks 1500
Aggro villian raises UTG1 to 20, we call with QJ in MP

Both blinds defend

Flop QJ6

Checks around, we bet 45 SB calls rest fold

Turn 4

Check, we bet 150, call

River T

SB bets 350
07-06-2017 , 12:32 PM
AK got there too. ($20 x 2 + $45 x 2+ $150 x 2 +$350= $780:$350) You're getting about 2-1, so I don't think bluff catching is horrible but I expect to lose calling here without a good physical tell though.
07-06-2017 , 12:33 PM
Not many bluffs.
07-06-2017 , 12:45 PM
I dont think he is ever bluffing in this spot. Getting some games from.my area as an example seems like a fold. It always depends in history you have but i tend to fold here

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07-06-2017 , 12:54 PM
I would prefer to see a 3! preflop to isolate the player you want to play with. 4 way pots are tough. You flopped top two and still are in a bad spot by the river.

Also I think you can bet bigger on the flop. There are a ton of semibluffs in your range that allow weaker hands to call and there are a ton of draws that villains can have including some massive combo draws that they will pay more to draw to.

I like the turn bet size for same reasons as a larger flop bet.

Fold river, as mentioned above you aren't beating any value hands and he has to be bluffing almost a third of the time for this to be a profitable call.

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07-06-2017 , 12:55 PM
Not many bluffs. Any reads on SB? Why so small on flop?

Also, please put pot size on each street.
07-06-2017 , 01:10 PM
Ok so i wasnt the hero in this hand but imo its a great hand to learn from.

I was actually the open raiser. I had 77.

SB never showed his cards so im guessing along with yall.

I believe this ahould be a call. Will explain why later
07-06-2017 , 01:16 PM
IGNORE ALL this, I misread the hand history.

Last edited by MIB211; 07-06-2017 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Confused by reverse HH
07-06-2017 , 02:38 PM
larger flop
turn sizing good

river I am sigh folding readless since it is really hard for sb to show up with a bluff here unless he is turning a pair into a bluff, which not many llsnl villains do. however this is a spot where what is correct can change vastly with reads on villain.
07-06-2017 , 03:47 PM
hand is played "ok" just fold river. If he is bluffing - it's like AhTx but he might not even call the turn just to bluff river. It's a terrible card for us no mater what.

You can only call this if he is a maniac - than I don't mind paying him off.

Only mistake is $45 into $80 is too small

And $150 into $170 is fine.

I like $60 into $80
and $180 into $200.
07-06-2017 , 03:51 PM
He can have KT/9T for bluffs. Bluffing the phantom flush outs when you have the OESD that bricks out is actually a thing. I do it from time to time and it works fairly well.
07-06-2017 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
He can have KT/9T for bluffs. Bluffing the phantom flush outs when you have the OESD that bricks out is actually a thing. I do it from time to time and it works fairly well.
Sure, but the problem is both of those hands paired up on the river. Even though it is painfully obvious for you & me that a pair of tens is worthless on this river, live villains are much less likely to bluff with any sort of showdown value - why I think this is a pretty read dependent spot.

Not saying that means he can't be bluffing with these hands; it just decreases the likelihood because 1) the T on the river blocks some of those combos and 2) it pairs up those combos as well.
07-06-2017 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
He can have KT/9T for bluffs. Bluffing the phantom flush outs when you have the OESD that bricks out is actually a thing. I do it from time to time and it works fairly well.
Yes but if that's all that V bluffs here, Hero can still exploit V by folding to all river bets because it is still less than proper bluff frequency. And as mentioned even this bluff relies on this particular villain being capable of bluffing after hitting showdown value on the river

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07-06-2017 , 05:18 PM
Its a read dependent spot for sure and the sb did a couple things that may have tilted my opinion. Firstly, he turned around to chat with the waitress, too casual imo

But, i think he had KTss exactly and this is a standard call i think.

The bet sizing sculpts the SBs range. When he bets small on the flop we can discount a lot of diamond draws since most of them can raise for value.

When the spade turns and the bet is increased to almost full pot, naked flush draws must fold. That leaves exactly 4 combos that can profitably call the turn oop.

When the ten of diamonds hits, that blocks 2 combos that can call and almost all of his diamond combos.

Villain did not reraise pre so discount all combos of AK

imo v has exactly one combo of hands at river

I would bet a lot of money he has KTss. The other combo left is 9Tss but he has more kt in his range calling from sb
07-06-2017 , 05:28 PM
It's a painful fold I believe. Definitely requires a good live read. A made 2 pair OTR can do this, a few bluffs, but certainly not enough to justify the call I believe. I have a feeling you called however, and won the pot.
07-06-2017 , 05:40 PM
Fwiw the hero in this hand folded. I wouldnt have. This is a tough hand but it comes down to sizing and the Td hitting the river. That card should have been in v's hand
07-06-2017 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Clark
Ok so i wasnt the hero in this hand but imo its a great hand to learn from.

I was actually the open raiser. I had 77.

SB never showed his cards so im guessing along with yall.

I believe this ahould be a call. Will explain why later
And y'all know why I'm locking this then. The only thing I dislike more than a reverse HH is the OP telling everyone they were wrong in their analysis because of some information they didn't bother to provide initially.
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