Hi all this is a hand I wonder if I could have flat on the flop


MP reg no read raises 20 preflop
HJ Flat
I flat with KQo in BB (black)
Btn flat

around 620 effective

82 in pot;

flop QdQh8h

I check
MP bets 35
HJ raises to 140
Btn fold.

if i call 140 pot would be 400 so I would have barely 1psb left

I didn't put HJ on AQ as most reg would 3bet iso IP

therefore I repop for 340;

MP folds HJ all in I call he shows 88

Is it just a cooler or should I have flat the 140 as flatting is as strong as re raising and it would freeze QJ/QT?

I might actually could find a fold OTT if i had flat as the flush comes in

I’d avoid posting results until a day or two to give people a chance to comment.

I think preflop is OK, but folding is also good (and probably my preference).

I also check the flop. It’s really hard to say what to do next because I know the result. But I’m for sure not 3betting the flop — this seems like either a flat or a call/evaluate on the turn.

I think the pair of queens on the board makes our hand look pretty, but doesn’t really change much in terms of what we beat. eg if the flop were Q82 and there were a bet and raise ahead of us, I think most would have no problem laying down top pair, even though our relative hand strength is very similar to our trips-second-kicker here.

Really? Folding a top 15% hand to close the action? I would not be folding 100% of the time, but definitely would be contemplating between a flat and squeeze vs an MP open and two flat calls in late position. Probably would be leaning 70/30 flat vs squeeze, where if flatting playing with caution, while when squeezing would just worry about the MP opener flatting.

AP, call looks just as strong as a shove in this scenario as you’re facing a 3b OOP, where you’re close to 50/50 on beating QJ/QT versus losing to AQ/88 so best to get it all in on flop

There's nothing wrong with flatting KQo preflop, it's just not my preference. Yeah, it's tight to fold closing the action, but with KQo we're rarely going to flop huge and often have to play a good-but-not-great hand TP-type hand out of position in a bloated pot against three other players. Perhaps others are better at these spots but I'm not convinced that they're that profitable, at least in my hands. If anything I'd squeeze before I call.

I'm skeptical that HJ is raising this particular flop 4x with anything we beat. Our best hope is QJ/QT but (again, just based on my experience) it seems really optimistic to include those.

I fold KQo vs strong open utg HU in BB... OOP if i hit TP and is ahead I win a small pot; too much reversed implied odds.

flop is Q82 then JQ QT might not raise.

thanks i should have posted results later.

What do you do with QJ or QT in HJ s shoes? would you just flat 4 way ? would it be underrepping the Q?

More or less I think the hand is fine. For ~125 BB I’m not too worried about it. Only think H screwed up was not spiking a K OTT or some super sick running 10’s.

If the flop were Q82 as you mentioned, it would add 4 extra combos that you beat of QJ / loose Q10 to his range (8 total) and 4 more AQ combos that beat you, which would put you ahead even more often.

But on the flop in the QQ8 scenario, in hj’s shoes: I’d be raising like hj did with QJ/QT too with 2 players to act behind (button/bb) to deny flush equity and hope to get called by MP’s AA,KK and non believing JJ/TT (even though you would be blocking those)

Fold or 3bet preflop, your hand is really bad vs an MP open, and it's really bad out of position.

Fold on the flop, opener bet + next to act raise is ridiculously strong four ways

You are probably leaking a massive amount of money by calling preflop raises, try tightening up your calling range

To OP: its a cooler...that's life.

As for preflop, KQ is a coinflip. Suited I call almost always.

To others, I can't recall seeing someone fold trips with second nut kicker on a paired flop. Certainly not in my home games, and I can't recall a similar situation on TV.

Pre is not a coinflip, it's a small mistake that will be repeated many times per session leading to a large leak. You are 4 ways out of position with a hand with poor visibility. Your hand only has value as blockers, which is why you may consider squeezing preflop

Pre looks good

OTF I would just XR all in make ur hand look like a FD.

There’s really no other size that doesn’t commit u anyways, and flatting is just the worst WHAT IS UR RANGE TO COLD CALL??

Just get it with 100ish BBs. Don’t see much else here

I rethought it twice... with 120bb deep and this SPR i don't think I ever have a cold call range..

I wonder if I should find a fold JQ/QTs there

as for KQo probably squeeze is the right play you are right.
Squeeze sizing? he opened to 20; found 2 callers; I am OOP; so should I consider a sizing like 110?

Being OOP with 2 callers behind MP, I’d look towards 8x so 160

LOL. I'll second that.

H is closing the action and getting the right odds to call. Calling is fine as long as H is confident playing KQo OOP in a multiway pot. If not, fold. Squeezing may be a decent option depending on what type of player the raiser is. With no information on the pre-flop raiser, I favor a call or fold. I wouldn't want to be squeezing into some super tight range.

H's play was fine. Sometimes you just get dealt a cooler.