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2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? 2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn?

02-06-2015 , 04:24 AM
2/5 venetian

Hero UTG ($580): Newish to table, tight, 20's white, hoodie, eating. Have maybe been there 4 orbits. Took down 1 pot limping UTG AKo in straddled pot, 1 overlimp, SB raises to 45, I make it $150, SB folds, limper folds. Otherwise have had zero hands/action.

V UTG+1 ($1200): Aggro reg, 30ish white beard, likes to pressure on late streets, sat down just after me, hasn't shown down any hands.

H UTG makes it $20 w/ AK , V calls UTG+1, CO calls, BUT calls, BB calls. Realized AFTER I bet that the button had the straddle on (headphones on, strong leak).

5 to flop (pot $100)

K97
Hero c-bets $40
V raises to $120, folds around to H who has $520 behind.


Normally I would be trying to get it in OTF here almost every time when 100bb deep but because my line looks fairly weak ($20 raise UTG in a straddled pot, <1/2PSB on flop) I definitely think this V can be attacking my c-bet here very light. Not to mention his raise seems a little on the small side to protect a set. Lets say we range V equally for Air/FD/2pair+.

Qs:

1) Thoughts on leading vs. x/r? Sizing?

2) Is anyone ever flatting here? If so, why? And what is your action OTT for /non.

3) How does your action change (if at all) if we were deeper, say 200bb.

4) Is it a leak to take x/r or b/r line in these situations to maximize FE? For instance I took a x/AI line earlier in the night:
H is SB A5 , V:UTG+2 opens $25, CO calls, BUT calls, H calls, BB calls.
FLOP A47
H checks, BB checks, V bets $100, folds to H who raises AI to $400.
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 06:03 AM
Shove. C-Bet is way too small. Also there's a straddle on the button at Venetian now? Even more reason to not play there (as if I needed anymore reasons).
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 06:12 AM
I never play at V, only there for the deepstack overflow
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 08:36 AM
I get it in and expect to be a small to medium sized favorite vs his range...I just ran it and we are a 63.3-37.3 dog vs an EXTREMELY nitty range of K9,97,99 and 77... With a couple of 10-8,10J of hearts etc combos,we will be ahead.

Quick question for other posters...is Ventian a nitty regfest?
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 08:58 AM
1) I prefer c/r because I'm checking most draw heavy boards OOP against 4 opponents. Leading is ok because we really don't mind calls and want to get the action going. Cbet should be $60ish

2) Don't flat. Re-raise. At worst we face a set and still have 30%. Toss up against two pair. Freerolling other AK and crushing everything else.

3) Action doesn't change if we're deep, imo.

4) It's good to maximize FE. In both examples, we only have top pair at the moment.
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 09:51 AM
I would consider a lolsized raise to $250. If we were deeper, that's absolutely the line I'd take. And the plan is to then call a reraise or jam any turn.

Argument for lolsizing is that there are draws in his range that are somewhere between slim (108cc) and dead (hearts). I don't know if this villain would be raising from this position with these hands, but if he would be, I certainly don't mind inviting him to decide he "can't fold for these odds."

Other argument for lolsizing is that all of his strong hands which will call (99, 77, 97, 10jhh) will just jam for us anyway. So we'll gii against the top of his range, and invite the bottom of his range to get weird and spewy.

Only downside is that the small raise will put up a warning flag for some villains. But since we're still pretty new at the table, I'm not overly worried about that. Minraise and let the dude level himself into a call.
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 10:58 AM
I prefer leading since x/r would look too strong. I think at 1/3 and 2/5 this is mostly done when someone holds at least two pairs. Plus your smallish UTG raise and smallish flop bet looks weak and its a great invitation for aggro villain to raise you.

I wouldn't flat here. No reason to do it with less than 100bb left. If you only flat your range will have a lot of flush draws and if you hit it on the turn most likely you won't get much out of him.

If we are 300bb deep I make a small re raise in the hopes of being able to go all in and get a call if a heart comes on the turn or river.
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 11:30 AM
You said villain likes to put pressure on late streets, so you have him right where you want him. Raising lets him fold his air and doesn't let him bluff the flush if it gets there.

If you give villain a wide calling range that only excludes JJ+ and AQ+which I assume he raises, he hits this flop a lot but rarely crushes it, so why do you want to maximize your fold equity? You are only folding out hands you smash.

There are only a couple of bad cards on the turn a non 8 or 10 with these I probably c/r ai on the turn, with everything else I'm c/c the turn and river. If the flush gets there on the turn and it goes c/c I lead the river small and hope he spazzes and raises.
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice_Guy_Eddie
1)
4) It's good to maximize FE. In both examples, we only have top pair at the moment.
Disagree with this point on the hand at issue. We have TPTK and the NFD. V is either ahead or drawing to 8 outs (OESD) or drawing to two pair/trips. We don't want him to fold his draws, and he's not folding two pair or a set. I like the min raise to charge his draws. Obviously calling a shove.
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 01:39 PM
We may be losing value if the comes on the Turn, Ace may be a scare card as well so lets get it in now.
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 03:58 PM
Wonder what that raise means?
- you didn't hit that flop, take this
- I gots a hand, better protect it
- gots me a flush draw, gonna buy me a free card

You can reraise and make a bit of money off the first two. But dang. If it's number 3, you could get his whole stack.

I think you're strong enough to call
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote
02-06-2015 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastes Pinneger
We may be losing value if the comes on the Turn, Ace may be a scare card as well so lets get it in now.
^ I concur with Sebastes that alot of scare cards could push him away if you just call. Though I am leaning less towards a push than just a reraise. IF you think he'll call an all in, then go ahead and GII.
2/5: Flopped Top/Top and NFD, get it in on flop or turn? Quote

      
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