2/5: Flopped nut straight facing a turn raise on a bad card - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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2/5: Flopped nut straight facing a turn raise on a bad card

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07-22-2019 , 07:07 AM

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

6-handed, 2/5, new table

Hero is in BB with $500

V ($320, Asian middle aged guy) limps in HJ, SB ($300) completes, Hero checks option with Ts9d.

Flop ($15): QhJd8h
SB checks, V checks out of turn, Hero bets $15, V calls, SB folds

Turn ($45): Ac
Hero bets $40, V raises to $100, Hero ???

Call, shove or fold?

If we call, what do we do on different rivers?

Last edited by momo_uk; 07-22-2019 at 07:14 AM.

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07-22-2019 , 07:35 AM

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

The turn isnt that bad. Only one hand beats you and he can have quite a few 2 pair hands now. He can easily have 88. He could also have some pair and draw hands. If he has KT, its a cooler that you cant avoid.

Id be OK with reraising just about any amount depending on the player. Some guys Id jam on. Others, Id make it $200. It depends on my read of what hands he would raise there and how much he gets married to 2 pair or draws.

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07-22-2019 , 07:51 AM

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,065

I'm getting it in if I can and I'm pretty happy about it. This kind of player (middle aged, limping pre, acting OOT) can be limping with all sorts of 2 pair hands on this board and even a set or two. A turn raise indicates a strong hand so reraise and hope he goes with it. You'll see KT a fair amount but you'll see worse more often imo.

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07-22-2019 , 08:28 AM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,231

Not real happy about his raise but without a good chunk of history I'm just putting him in on the turn. His flop action looks like a draw of some sort but only one of them is beating you now. He could have improved to a nut flush draw or a combo draw or two pair on the turn, with some chance he had two pair/set to begin with. Without a strong read your hand is too good to fold. If he is drawing to beat you there are too many ways river will freeze the action.

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07-22-2019 , 10:16 AM

JeffChang

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

I shove here. You block a T and he probably thinks 2-pair is good. A8o AJo even AQo 88 Axhearts vs similar amounts 12 counts of kTo

If you call a heart might kill any action.

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07-22-2019 , 10:20 AM

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

You are 60bb effective. GII.

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07-22-2019 , 02:24 PM

Koko the munkey

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,384

Folding the second nut straight when only 60 BB deep would be a massive leak. Get it in here.

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07-22-2019 , 04:44 PM

WehrmatsWormhat

journeyman

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 353

Either shove or raise a smaller amount than that, but you have the second nuts and block the nuts, so you shouldn't be super worried about this. He could easily have Khxh, a set, or 2 pair.

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07-22-2019 , 11:34 PM

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

I just called. River was 8x and went check/check. And he had AJo.

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07-23-2019 , 12:27 PM

#10

wewa925

adept

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,039

lmao where do you play?

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07-23-2019 , 03:47 PM

#11

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

I just called. River was 8x and went check/check. And he had AJo.

You should be in poker jail. You committed a poker felony.

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07-23-2019 , 03:57 PM

#12

chrissygolf

banned

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 331

hands like this are why you dont get action on sets even from the fish

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07-23-2019 , 05:29 PM

#13

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissygolf

hands like this are why you dont get action on sets even from the fish

So playing cautious is a sin.

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07-23-2019 , 07:26 PM

#14

djevans

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,045

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

So playing cautious is a sin.

It's pretty bad in this spot

You also block KT so he's gonna have way more 2 pair or sets

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07-23-2019 , 07:29 PM

#15

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Your leak is in the title of your thread.

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07-23-2019 , 07:45 PM

#16

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

So playing cautious is a sin.

Well if you only get in the stone cold absolute nuts in post, then you really shouldn't be surprised when people fold to your raises/jams..... just sayin'

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07-23-2019 , 07:45 PM

#17

Nippleman

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 660

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

So playing cautious is a sin.

No, but playing mubsy is.

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07-24-2019 , 12:47 AM

#18

JeffChang

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 170

Why all the negative comments? Fellow member running bad just needs help.

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07-24-2019 , 01:14 AM

#19

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffChang

Why all the negative comments? Fellow member running bad just needs help.

The cumulative advice for OP in this thread alone is prob worth 3-4 flags.

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07-24-2019 , 05:10 AM

#20

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

What if we were $400 deep? $500 deep? Do you guys still just CRAI???

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07-24-2019 , 07:30 AM

#21

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,065

I'm getting a 100BB stack in with the 2nd nuts most of the time yes (1 liner straights and 4 flushes are times I might not). Especially if it's against a middle aged fishy kinda guy who can definitely overvalue worse. You seem trapped in a vicious cycle where people are calling you super tight so you tighten up further to try and maintain value so they tighten up against you and so on. The only way to break out is to use your awesome image to bluff continuously until you start getting called light enough that this is a standard value shove for you.

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07-24-2019 , 07:40 AM

#22

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

What if we were $400 deep? $500 deep? Do you guys still just CRAI???

Not necessarily crai on the turn, but Im trying to get it all in over the turn and river. If you are afraid to get 60-80-100BBs in with the 2nd nuts, you will never get paid off.

If I had 10-20+ hours with you and saw you playing this way, I would fold 2 pair here to any size check raise. Why would anyone continue with 2 pair when you only play big pots with the nuts?

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07-24-2019 , 01:13 PM

#23

Nippleman

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 660

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffChang

Why all the negative comments? Fellow member running bad just needs help.

He flopped a straight. Problem isn't that he is running bad, it is that he is playing scared deep, and when he does have the goods, he isn't getting calls. Most players might not read us the way we do in this carrier, but if you think they can't tell when a player is a nut peddler, you are going to be in for a rude awakening.

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07-24-2019 , 02:58 PM

#24

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

The problem is he thinks the A is a bad card.

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07-24-2019 , 03:04 PM

#25

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

What if we were $400 deep? $500 deep? Do you guys still just CRAI???

You bet turn, and for sure I shove with T9 (and other high equity hands unblocking 2p not that deep. You're playing 2/5, 400 and 500 deep is pennies and doesn't shift strategy whatsoever. V has to have overlimped KQ IP which means he overlimps lots of other bway combos that are all over this board which also means hes sucks and might call off his stack as a huge underdog (or just raise fold his equity away).

'don't stack off in a limped pot' loses its luster when you aren't deep and your opponent has a large number of worse for-value non-nut combos available that take the same lines as often as the nuts itself.

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