2/5 full ring, the live button straddle is on to $10

Relevant stacks and reads: Hero is shortest stack at $650. There aren't any huge fish sitting, most mistakes are people being too passive pf, people straddling from both the button and utg, and maybe some slight over valuing of overpairs or top pair. Not a ton of 3 betting preflop overall, maybe half the table will do it regularly with something like Aqs while the others will just call

Main V in this hand plays alright, he isn't super aggressive preflop and is happy to see a flop. Earlier we were playing 1/3 and he cold called my raises twice in a row, I flopped tptk and bet 3 streets, he folded river. Has a clue but not the best player in the room.

Anyway OTTH

3 callers hero calls in mp with Tc8c

Flop ends up 6 ways

AQJ with 2 clubs

2 checks, V bets $55 into $60, hero....?

Flat. Your hand is far too good to fold and raising is bad for a couple reasons - you'll lose the rest of the field and if V has happened to flop gin with KT, you'll get it in with a lot less outs than you thought you had. Also, V's bet size doesn't seem like he's intending to fold. So that leaves calling.

Hmmm well strictly based on odds you are getting roughly 2:1 which means you need to be winning about 33% of the time. If V has 2p or trips then you are getting between 40-50%..So its a call.

fold pre

Because....?

If the answer is "because T8s isn't profitable to take a flop with 6 handed with position on most of the players", that's just ludicrous. I'm gonna assume it's a religious objection to limping.

We block KT, making this a reasonable candidate for a bluff raise along with having great equity against almost anything. I’m not sure what other hands you want to keep in the pot? A raise can knock out other Tx. There are worse flush draws but not tons of them.

Suits on the flop matter, OP. If the A is the non club then a lot of Acxc combos have you crushed.

I guess Vs bet size is a lot of it. Really don't think he has a one pair hand for such a big bet. I think he's going to have two pairs, KT and better FDs and not fold any of it.

I don't think you can fold here. This is a monster draw and it could be you're up against a single pair or two pair that has a good chance of not getting there. Flat though, never raise--in my amateur non 2/5 opinion.

Because hero is in MP and the button straddle is on. There is a very good chance that someone in LP is going to make it $60, and now hero just lit $10 on fire.

So, yes, fold pre.

well i wish people would say which actual position it was because idk wtf mp actually is, is it utg+2? is it lojack? is it cutoff?

its important because if we ever get isoed behind we have just torched $10, which is basically the biggest reason you don't limp - limp calling is the nut low and its how we make our money

Yeah, EVERYTHING besides utg and the button is considered ‘mp’ in full ring...

Some even consider the blinds to be MP, which is where it gets really confusing

If the villain had a history of folding TP to pressure, this would be a good semi-bluff situation. However, we only see him calling down to the river and folding. If the Ace is a club, we'd be much less likely to be up against a better FD. We'd want to push the FD out if that was the case with a big raise.

With the limited information we have, I'd call.

The pf call is fine at these stack sizes and the apparently passiveness of the table.

I think this is quite game dependent. In some games the raise is very likely to come but in other games it isn't making limping and playing bingo a fairly reasonable thing to do

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I know a way to tell what kind of game this was...

Agree that if you get iso-raised much, that's bad and will make limping -EV. But from the fact that OP said the game plays passively and the fact that this hand is a 6-way limped preflop pot, my guess is limping speculative stuff is fine. LLSNL is not in general about fighting for 1BB here and there. It's about trying to get into situations where you can exploit people.

If table plays passively in straddled pots, raise pre.
If table plays aggressively in straddled pots, raise pre.

I agree with both of these mostly. Raising flop is spewy and requires too much to go right. Still too many hands we can be way behind on either side of our draws.

Might actually consider folding the flop. Small flush draw, and one straight is a 1 card straight so implied odds are bad, and 2nd straight isn't nut straight. Also still others left to act. Also we chop straights some time with other Tx. This guy is also betting into 6 people. Would be alot easier to play/more of a call if we had raised pre and was hu or 3 handed. Lastly our fold equity is a little handicapped being only 65bb effective. Not totally useless but lessened.

Pre is weak and T8 one gapper out of position isnt good enough to limp and plays better as a raise with dead money and initiative.

MP is the position after UTG+3 and before the LJ.

fold pre because your position is terrible and you only have 60 BB therefore not enough implied odds.

fold post because you have no implied odds because your draw is incredibly obvious and no one is going to give you action when you hit unless they have a higher flush