Tough spot tonight with flopped baby flush

2/3/5

6 way limped pot I completed 62dd in SB (my stack $300, HJ-$600, BTN-$400)

Flop ($30): T94ddd
Checks to BTN who bets $15, I call, HJ calls

Turn ($75): Qc
Checks to BTN who bets $100, ??

I generally like to lead out these hands but thought leading out 6 way first to act would look too strong, planned to xc all the way then bet/fold river to look like missed AdX. But the overbet confused me.

This is why you shouldn't complete with garbage. You've gotten the absolute dream flop and you're still hating life.

Yeah I think this is true -- if you flop a flush 60bbs deep and can't GII, then completing this hand is bad.

As played, I probably just jam it in on the turn and hope V has some sort of AdTx, T9, QT, 44, basically hoping V has a hand that's either drawing to the fourth diamond or afraid of it, but either way, I think V should have things you can beat here.

I know, but look at the odds. $2 to complete to win $38.

In order for you to win the $38, you'd either have to bet or call here now that you've flopped a flush. If you're behind, there's potential RIO to the tune of $300. I think $300 to win $338 when you don't know what to do in the HH at hand is telling. One alternative to avoid figuring out what to do on this turn is to ignore that you think you're getting good odds and just fold preflop.

Are we losing $300 everytime though in a limped pot here? Say if I led out $15 OTF, they call. Led out $35 OTT and got raised, it’s an easy fold for me. Is it that bad to complete if I have the bet/fold button in my arsenal?

This was a unique case where a) I decided to play tricky and check both streets, and b) the guy is overbetting turn now instead of a standard $30-50.

Sure, but we also often end up having to make really hard decisions with lots of money on the line. Put yourself in positions to succeed.

I agree that we fold pre here, but as played, I'm calling and then calling again on any non-diamond river that doesn't pair the board.

Folding pre every single time. We can complete in the SB a touch looser when the sb/bb format is double (example: 2/4). Even then 62s is still complete trash in the worst position possible and we're still folding. As played CRAI on turn easily.

I'd jam. Why would he overbet with higher flush? Getting called on the river after safe card seems unlikely after your call or then it goes check-check. HJ is probably out anyway.

Fold pre
Lead flop
AP raise flop
AP jam turn

You have 60bb. Ckr flop and shove turn.

Limping can be fine, but you have to gas it the whole way when you flop a flush. You didn’t play it ‘tricky’ either. Tricky would be completing JJ and flopping a set. You have a made, but vulnerable, hand and are currently getting the least amount of money for the most amount of risk.

You want this hand face up and to charge everyone the max price.

Marsh

Ahhh, the good ol' argument of completing SB because it gives such a good odds.

If we can track EV of every position, SB would be right up the top for some pretty obvious reasons:

1. Worst natural position.
2. Before any decision made, EV is already -$SB.

Some choose to further increase the -EV of SB by voluntarily putting more money in the pot with weak holding.

This is such instance.

Most people would know not to bet Charlotte Hornets to win NBA championship even though it is offered at an incredible 2000/1 odds.

And yet they can justify a call with weak holding in SB because it's 10/1 odds.

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Everyone already dunked on you for pre, so put that aside. Trivial rip now. Either he has like 87dd or you're ahead.

It’s what you call poker ego. Cuz lolol skill edge >>>>>>>>>> card advantage/rake/OOP/RIO/etc

I’d generally just shove 300 OTT here but decided to flat for a change. HJ now moves all in for $600, and BTN snaps for his remaining $300.

I snap fold LOL.

HJ-84dd
BTN- Q9o with Qd.

River bricks. HJ scoops.

Everyone’s playing great.
You probably win sometimes if you ck shove turn too.

I have no idea why you don't raise the flop. You have a strong hand that won't improve and it's vulnerable to the board paring and a fourth diamond.

Not sure why you just flat the $100 on the turn. You have to shove.

You're playing scared IMO. You only have 60 BB. You have to get all of that into the pot when you flop a flush.

I think preflop is fine and I’m a nit. You’d be in exactly the same spot if you completed 65s pre and I can’t imagine anybody here is so nitty as to fold that, so if you all are annoyed about that then pretend that was hero’s holding instead.

Flop depends on how active players are at the table and how willing they are to pay off. I’m alright leading if people are passive and pay off; c/c works for me too. Your hand is pretty vulnerable and you could be drawing dead, so I don’t mind keeping this one small with check/evaluate on the flop. Since BTN leads, I think c/c is fine given strength of your hand and relative position. c/r is good, too, but with a different intent. c/c to play smaller multi-way pot and make it easy to get away if players in between get frisky. c/r for value and to define your hand (which will make it easier to define opponents’ range based on their actions) and to discourage weak draws with plenty of equity from getting there cheap. If i c/r and anybody in between cold-calls I’m proceeding extremely cautiously. If I get 3-bet I’m probably giving it up.

Turn check is okay. If it checks around and the river is safe you can value bet (should happen fairly often I think). If HJ leads and BTN raises you can fold. If HJ leads and BTN flats you have to go with your gut: either jam or fold. With the BTN overbet ... looks to me like a hand that thinks it’s the best now and doesn’t want to see anything scary on the river (2-pair+; small/medium flush; pair+ with quality flush draw that’s semi-bluffing) or occasionally a monster that wants to get the $ in since the weak flop lead got 2 players. I’m not too worried about HJ because i’d expect a big hand to raise the flop. Given stacks, I think you have 2 defensible plays: c/shove (assuming HJ folds; if HJ calls I figure that means we’re toast, but don’t think that happens too often; feel like we’re ahead of BTN’s range enough for this to be good) or c/f if you’re uncomfortable playing for stacks in what’s still a pretty small pot with a player left to act. I don’t love c/c unless you have some read on BTN or HJ — I would c/c only if I think HJ is passive/straightforward/not trippy and will call again with worse hands and play straightforward on the river.

Playing OOP sucks; playing in 8-way limped pots OOP also sucks. Your hand is right at that middle spot where it’s just hard to be comfortable with any choice you make. Still doesn’t mean you automatically should fold pre, though.

Right, and J7 and JT are the same hand.

The rest is kind of just this downward spiral.

Agree with you. The reason I xc turn was because I wasn’t confident of my hand especially with HJ still in, and thought shoving might be a slight overplay. I should’ve just folded, but I was correct in my read that I had the BTN beat.