Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-31-2019, 05:59 AM   #1
maka2020
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 172
2/5 facing a massive river overbet with top pair

Villain is regarded as a good player, often uses large bet sizes including overbets, takes advantage of capped ranges etc. By no means a maniac. That said, I have not played with him much and unfortunately haven't seen what he shows down when he plays those unusual bets.

Effective stack in this hand is ~$2k.

Preflop:
V opens from CO to 20, SB calls, Hero calls on BB with A6.

Flop ($60): J54
Hero checks, V bets $50, SB folds, Hero raises to $170, V calls.

Turn ($400): K
Hero checks, V bets $130, Hero calls.

River ($660): A
Hero checks, V goes all in for ~$1500, Hero folds.

I think this combo has to be a fold, but i feel like I got owned in this hand. Is my line ok? What should my range look like on each street to ever be able to call this river bet?
maka2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 08:41 AM   #2
Spanishmoon
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northeast
Posts: 1,044
Re: 2/5 facing a massive river overbet with top pair

Fold preflop. You have a marginal hand that you’re going to play oop against a capable Villain.

Call flop getting great IO on your nfd. If you’re going to raise here, you’re repping a set so you have to keep barreling the turn. V’s turn bet seems like a probe and when you call you’ve capped yourself to a draw. On the river the draws all brick out except the Back door straight. So V blasts off when you check. I suppose you have to fold otr.

Obviously this was not your best hand. Maybe your 54s and Ah4h could call down river but it’s a narrow range.
Spanishmoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 07:17 PM   #3
FusilliJerry
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 60
Re: 2/5 facing a massive river overbet with top pair

3! or fold preflop; calling is fine if we have lots of callers before us and we can possibly overflush someone, but this is not a profitable call OOP vs a better player.

AP, just call flop. We can still have the best hand and if not we have a ton of equity. No need to turn our hand into a bluff. Would rather do so with a hand like 7d8d.
FusilliJerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 09:25 PM   #4
Minatorr
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 5,226
Re: 2/5 facing a massive river overbet with top pair

I am calling here anyday at any stack level and especially $2k deep, and with presumably an avg weak player in the SB... even without SB there i defend all day. Might occasionally squeeze, like 30/70

Flop i would not raise when he near psb this flop 3 people, turn fine, river just sigh muck

He has QT here almost always, such a face up line tbh, maybe 32s that got frisky pre and occasionally spaz bluffing. I’d say there’s a near zero % chance he plays a set like this
Minatorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 02:47 AM   #5
reaper6788
Pooh-Bah
 
reaper6788's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: bring online back to US!
Posts: 3,772
Re: 2/5 facing a massive river overbet with top pair

Villain definitely does not have QT face up look at the flop and the action on it again. Maaaaaybe QhTh exactly.
reaper6788 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 04:14 AM   #6
Minatorr
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 5,226
Re: 2/5 facing a massive river overbet with top pair

Yeah, it is pretty faceup. It's pretty dam unlikely a reg sitting on $5k is going to 1/3 turn with a set or two pair after Hero's hand looks exactly what it looks like and then all of a sudden ship river for over 2x pot with JJ/KK/AA/two pair when the river completes 32s/QThh/QTdd for H. That literally makes zero sense. So he really only has a straight or bluff otr. It doesn't matter if he only has 1 combo of QThh, 2 combos of 32s, and .5 combos of QTdd. He just doesn't have much else in his value shove range after taking that line ott.

How about look at the turn sizing, look at the river card, look at what the bet size is, and think about what his value range looks like?

If a nit shoved $20,000 otr on 99875 board at 1/2 what do you think he has, and do you think his line is faceup?

Last edited by Minatorr; 09-01-2019 at 04:28 AM.
Minatorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 10:04 AM   #7
DooDooPoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 11,548
Re: 2/5 facing a massive river overbet with top pair

Obviously preflop is a call. Folding is complete spew.

XR frequencies go down the higher the SPR. They also go down the bigger the cbet size. Villain bet 50 into 60 so your XR frequency should go down. Also SPR here is over 30. So we should be mostly calling OTF.

Turn is one of the worst in the deck for your range. Checking is good. Villain's turn bet sizing is likely a mistake - calling turn is good.

River again is one of the worst in the deck for your range. x/f river.
DooDooPoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 11:41 AM   #8
reaper6788
Pooh-Bah
 
reaper6788's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: bring online back to US!
Posts: 3,772
Re: 2/5 facing a massive river overbet with top pair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Yeah, it is pretty faceup. It's pretty dam unlikely a reg sitting on $5k is going to 1/3 turn with a set or two pair after Hero's hand looks exactly what it looks like and then all of a sudden ship river for over 2x pot with JJ/KK/AA/two pair when the river completes 32s/QThh/QTdd for H. That literally makes zero sense. So he really only has a straight or bluff otr. It doesn't matter if he only has 1 combo of QThh, 2 combos of 32s, and .5 combos of QTdd. He just doesn't have much else in his value shove range after taking that line ott.

How about look at the turn sizing, look at the river card, look at what the bet size is, and think about what his value range looks like?

If a nit shoved $20,000 otr on 99875 board at 1/2 what do you think he has, and do you think his line is faceup?
It's "good" to call a big flop x/r with QdTd?
reaper6788 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 03:48 PM   #9
Minatorr
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 5,226
Re: 2/5 facing a massive river overbet with top pair

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper6788 View Post
It's "good" to call a big flop x/r with QdTd?
Where did I say it was good? I could possibly reduce the combos to .1 or .25 to be more realistic but whatever. a reg sitting on $5k definitely isn't folding QTdd otf at 100% frequency IP. And the fact of whether I think is "good" to call with QTdd otf is completely irrelevant. I'm not V. You're just grasping at straws now. Classic.
Minatorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 10:50 AM   #10
maka2020
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 172
Re: 2/5 facing a massive river overbet with top pair

Thanks for the responses. I will keep in mind to keep my check-raises down when facing big bets in high SPR spots.
maka2020 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive