2/5 facing 4 bet with AKs - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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2/5 facing 4 bet with AKs

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11-20-2016 , 09:06 AM

sharkem

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 74

Playing 2/5 with effective stacks of 450

Utg + 1 opens for 20, and 2 players call. I am on the button with Ad, Kd. I 3 bet to 75. The big blind, a 40 year old black guy who recently joined the table, 4 bets to 235. It folds back to me, and I tank for a few minutes. My opponent calls for time, and I call. (532 in the pot)

My opponent goes all in for another 215 in the dark.

The flop comes Qs, 9s, 2c. He says, "I'll show if you fold." Hero???

Comments on pre also

Last edited by Garick; 11-20-2016 at 10:29 AM. Reason: removed results

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11-20-2016 , 09:45 AM

Shamway99

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 3,348

AKs 100bb deep should be easy stack off pre.

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11-20-2016 , 10:36 AM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,514

Three-bet is too small, imo. There is already $80 in the pot with your call, and you made it only $55 more. If no one four bets, you are probably playing this pot at least three ways. I make it at least $90.

AP, I likely fold to the 4-bet, even though the demographic described can be gamble-y, we've seen nothing to tell us he's getting out of line, and he cold 4-bet out of position. In most 2-5 games, this is KK-AA 80% of the time, with the other 20% being JJ/QQ and AKs.

Nice of him to go AI in the dark. Now you can call if you hit and fold if you don't. You didn't, so fold, even if he hadn't offered to show.

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11-20-2016 , 03:59 PM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,231

Absent any other information I'm folding to the 4 bet. Given the why it played out and his offer to show after calling the clock villain is likely a gambler or bluffer but you didn't know that before the flop. If you did want to play, don't call the 4 bet for half your stack, just shove. That way you get to see all 5 cards.

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11-20-2016 , 05:51 PM

rungoodinc

stranger

Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 12

In live poker this is a fold IMO. I think a HUGE part of villain's range is AA-QQ and not to stereotype, but since this is the only information we have to go off, black guys are usually not the gambling/LAG type, especially when it comes to being the aggressor.

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11-22-2016 , 07:33 AM

sharkem

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 74

Thank you all for your comments, especially Garick.

I ended up folding and my opponent showed Qc, Qh.

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11-22-2016 , 07:15 PM

7weeks2days

adept

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 897

Often times I wouldnt be 3! an utg open unless I know how wide their range could be here and if they would be folding. IN your case, there was more dead money and you are otb so 3! is probably ok. Once the guy out of the blind cold 4! I think we need to fold unless we have any reads to suggest otherwise. As played if you dot want to fold you need to shove pre. Calling the 4bet was our worst option. Fold to 4!>shove>flat the 4!

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11-23-2016 , 10:08 AM

dustinitoff

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 315

Fold to the 4! pre although it cant be that bad shoving pre either.

Once he bets dark you have an easy decision once you miss the flop.

Once he says "ill show if you fold" i fold even quicker

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11-23-2016 , 11:16 AM

keybattle

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 665

3 bet to 100

You should consider jam or fold pre.

You have 35% equity against range of QQ+ preflop.

Suppose he never folds, you need to put 375 to win 585 (60 + 75 + 450), you need 39% equity to win.

Probably just fold pre.

It is awful to put 50% of stacks to see the flop and then fold flop 2/3 of time when you miss.

When you hit A/K on the flop, you are not getting money from QQ. You might lose everything against AA/KK

Last edited by keybattle; 11-23-2016 at 11:29 AM.

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11-23-2016 , 11:32 AM

#10

ZuneIt

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,160

When UTG+1 opens for 4x BB & gets 2 [or more] callers, is flatting OTB with AK suited a profitable play if you can fold OTF when you miss?
Is raising a lot more profitable?

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11-23-2016 , 11:41 AM

#11

keybattle

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 665

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuneIt

When UTG+1 opens for 4x BB & gets 2 [or more] callers, is flatting OTB with AK suited a profitable play if you can fold OTF when you miss?
Is raising a lot more profitable?

Even UTG is a tight opener with a range of 99+, AQs+, KQs+, AQo+. AKs is still slightly favored.

Also, live poker player is not disciplined or play position strictly.

You will see many people open 9Ts, A5s, KQo, KJo UTG as well.

We have position and a good hand.

If we are not 3betting AKs, what are we 3betting? QQ+ only?

I think if there is no callers, flat can be ok. But with 2 caller and 60 dead money, I want to raise here all day.

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