4bet to 340
bet 340 OTF

ship turn

So i guess the consensus of the thread is to 4 bet pre at least, some different opinions regarding sizing though wich is good food for thought.

One of the questions i asked myself in my head before i made my decision is whether or not its too much money behind that flatting is appropriate here- and if i am sort of ending up possibly trapping myself by letting villain see a flop for this prize with lots of money behind? Like is it most +EV giving him the chance to get a 9-10-J flop with QQ, or flop flushdraw with AK suited? Basically give him the chance of hitting major equity when i am never folding and we are pretty much always playing a more than 600 BB pot? Would appreciate to get some input/opinions on this train of thought.

Or is the consensus that the biggest argument for 4 betting is the fact that we risk going multiway to the flop by flatting?

IMO biggest reason for 4betting is that we have enormous stacks and it's a huge mistake to fail to commit as much as possible when we have the nuts.

i definitely want to 4b here, don't want it going 4-way to the flop with 2 very deep opponents. i'm not a math wizard but i would guess that just calling gives all but the 600$ stack proper set mining odds, if not everyone.

Always put the 4! in the deep. If you were sitting with ~$500, then I would prefer flatting.

$375
55% of pot otf

We're not even really that deep though, in absolute dollars or relative BB's with the double straddle on.

The open raise size was $50. In a regular 2/5/T game it might be something like $35-40, and here we elect for a "small" sizing of $50 which looks to me like more of a 2/5/T/15 game and we have 100 BB's effective.

Sure going to the flop 4-ways decreases our chances of winning the pot, but the SPR is going to be 2.4x and we are committed no matter what and we just jam it in there after V1 bets. The only guy that can really hurt us is the BTN ($1600) who was basically thrown into this thread as an afterthought which is a mistake if we are trying to determine the best preflop play.

Sizing isn't terribly important as long as it's at least 350. 300 doesn't force a significant enough of a set mine error from the 3bettor.

go $300~. if you r that worried about losing him when you 4bet, then you probably arent 4betting enough and the tables impression of you being a nit is right..

Ok. Lets go with the premise that i am a nit/or that villain and the table have that impression of me. First to come i am not bothered by that, ive been stamped as nit/rock almost since i started playing several years ago (mostly because my preflop hand selection stands out from the other players who play anything for a single raise pre)- but i still get paid with over and over again. Also what is funny is that the players who are most obsessed with calling me out as a rock, they are the one that loses the most money to me.

Second, focus on this spot. Should i really be 4 betting villain wide here (300 BBs deep) due to my deadread on him over hundreds of hours that he only 3 bets premiums? Isnt the natural approach adjustment that i simply cant 4 bet him very light for value at all?

Third, its extremeley rare spot to come up that this particular villain 3 bets my 50$ open on a double straddle. I simply cant remember last time that happen. Just because of his passive style preflop,his emo is to see flops and then play aggressive postflop.

you are overthinking this a lot ..

pre 60
4bet because you dont want to go 4ways to the flop

your 4 bet sizing is kind of irrelevant because every 2x 4 bet will make it possible to bet flop and ship turn.. you are not folding AA postflop anyway.

so what happend

Alright results: hero desides on a 4 bet to 410$. Other guys folds and villain start talking to himself going into the tank- clearly uncomfortable with the situation that is under progress. After tanking for a while he mucks QQ faceup and mumbling to me"Think i have to fold this or else i may double you up". Villain have lost alot of money to me and my good friend over the last couple months, so i guess there is some mental aspects of this hand also wich tilts his decision in this hand.

So looking back on it i dont regret the 4 bet (especially cause of the risk going multiway to the flop with substanial money behind), but i do think i made it a tad too big. Maybe a sizing around 360$ would have helped sucking him into the hand.

4-bet was too big imo, and I like flatting entire range pre vs him given all your reads. He made it so small, so any pair and decent SC/A10s+.

Everyone saying that the flop goes 4-way, that's not true. Just think about it. Nit opens and gets squeezed by a guy who 3-bets only premiums. They're getting out of the way most likely with hands like A9o, K10o, or whatever random unsuited crap they called with pre.

Even if it does go 4-way, SPR will be 2.4ish and we have an easy stackoff on any board. It doesnt matter if it is 654sss and we have no spade. We dont care how "safe" the board is when we have the best overpair in a pot with a SPR barely above 2

Obv now you know he has a 3b/f range, you can adjust by adding more bluffs. But that's being result oriented.

Yeah, for sure regret on the 4 bet sizing. He have shown a pattern to call ridicilously big 3 and 4 bets from me in the past due to having no fold button pre, so this is the very first time i see him having a 3 bet/fold range.

I dont think it will go 4 ways everytime either, but i dont like the situation either way cause i feel i sort of give people with lot of money behind a "freeroll" for my stack, cause as you say i am going with AA with a stackoff for 300 BB anyway. So i mean in theory they can stack me when they flop 2 pair, set or combodraw or something, but they can get out of the way if they dont flop huge equity on me. I dont know if that is the case, i am just little bit unsure of this spot when gauging the probability of going multiway and if that is indeed a mistake or not.

Can you eleborate more on the resultoriented part if you dont mind? Had some trouble understanding your point there. And even knowing his 3 bet range being only ultrapremiums (QQ+ some combos of AK, not all) i should mix in some 4 bets with Ak for example even this deep after seing him fold QQ to me at this stack depth?

Yeah I think 4-betting fairly small or flatting are both fine. I just prefer flatting given both our images and his comment that he's scared he'll get stacked by making a mistake against us.

Technically with the double straddle you aren't really 300bb deep. Getting stacked at this stack level in a 3-bet pot with 150 big blinds is pretty standard if it happens.

Well, now that you know he folds QQ to a 4-bet, you can start 4-betting AK and some bluffs, knowing he will never 5-bet shove light and can fold monsters like AK/QQ/JJ facing a 4-bet

Thanks for some good input on the end Minatorr, appreciated.

Sure man! No problem.