I played in a very loose agressive DEEP game last night, the big stack on my table was to my right with about 3300, I had 2400. I have many hours with this villain and he is the target on this table. Generally speaking he is very rich and normally very drunk. He loves to put you to the test and is capable of big bluffs. Tonight he is not drinking as normal and fooled me in an earlier hand . I stacked off to him early in the session with flopped flush over flush after he opened raised and I three bet him in position. He checked to me on the flop I bet 2/3 pot and he shipped it and I called.

Anyhow to the hand

UTG opens for 20, Villain splashed the pot to 45, I make it 110 with AKd, it folds to Villain who flats.

Flop Ac7d6h Villain checks I make it 210 villain ships,

Hero?

Tough spot. I think I fold. I think his range consists of 66, 77, AQ, AK. It hurts so bad when he shows 89 or something stupid after we fold but were too deep to go broke with 1 pair imo.

Don't think I would be 3b AKo against such a loose V since you wind up in this spot deciding whether to get 500bb in with top pair. As played pre I would check back flop and see what he does on the turn since flop is pretty dry. I prob fold to his massive overbet shove here with no redraw and a good chance that you are drawing nearly dead if this is a value shove.

This post is extremely results oriented. You played the hand fine pre and otf. Without any more specific hand histories on this villain, im probably folding flop.

It's not results oriented. Why 3b pre with a hand likely to flop one pair at best against a V who is not afraid to overbet shove? Unless OP was planning on snap calling a shove with a flopped TP, he shouldn't be 3b pre. The 3b still leaves an SPR over 10 which is not good for one pair hands. Checking back flop keeps heros range wider than betting it. With a FD or another broadway card on flop I would be more inclined to bet it.

No. If hes expecting him to c/r overbet shove a lot then its a snap call. The thing is he wasn't really expecting it meaning it doesn't necessarily happen that often which is why OP doesn't know whether to call or fold flop

Is just pot controlling and missing out on tons of value. I'm going for 3 streets of value if he ck/calls flop in this spot almost always

3 streets of value leaves him all in on river in just about any scenario. V doesn't sound like the type to c/c 3 streets

2 diamonds otf


editops misread it. still betting though

Ac7d6h according to OPs post

Wat? What about the villain makes you think this. From OP, he's the biggest fish at the table and usually pretty drunk. Sounds like a guy who will call 3 streets a lot.

It's rainbow.

As for the hand - 3b is totally fine. Betting the flop is also fine. I think it's a puke fold unless you've seen V make these crazy over-shoves with air/draws (and there aren't many draws other there.) Players (bad ones in particular) love to overshove Axx flops when they are beating hands like AK because they don't think AK will ever fold.

People are talking about the "3b pre" but I read it as OP cold 4-betting. If you're gonna do that, size it bigger.

Agree with this. I am checking my entire range on this flop, especially against a fish whose biggest leak is described as bluffing too much. It makes your hand look weak and he'll fire turn+river a lot or pay you off lighter.

As played, while I'd fold against most players, I gotta call against the villain as described There are so few value combos he could shove (especially given preflop, although we don't really know how he plays in that respect) that if he's aggro his range will inadvertently be super bluff-heavy.

TPTK is not a big hand as deep as you are. You're playing this to stack off as is. Pot was 230 or so on the flop, you make a PSB on the flop. If he calls, the pot moves to 650 for the turn. Make a 3/4 PSB on the turn and he calls. You're now on the river with a $1600 pot and less than a PSB to go. If he shoved on the river, were you going to fold getting over 2:1?

You have a great flop to look a little weaker and let him come after you. You can have lots of second pair hands that he might figure he can push you off. The flop is reasonably dry. If you don't want to stack off, this is the street to take a card with position. If you're beat, you've got a best 5 outs. If you're ahead, he's got 2-5 outs.

With your read and he's sober, I call and live with it. He figures the flush hand is still in your head and his FE is good. If you don't call after playing this hand this way, pick up your chips and go. It isn't your night.

Didn't realize this was a cold 4b and that V 3b pre. That leans it towards a call but would expect to see a chop most of the time. Tough to see him 3b light with A6/A7/66/77/67 so he either has AK/AA or bluffing and AA probably isn't shoving 6x pot on flop with no draws out there.

actually, not even 3x pot. it just seems such a huge overraise when in reality it isn´t THAT absurd. still a very sick play and a very big overraise, especially for live standards.

i think your range on him as AK/AA bluffing is a little of here, he more or less splashed min3bet pre, which could be almost anything. described villain is probably also never laying down A6 etc to a cold 4bet pre, especially this deep.

sickening spot. i agree with probably checking behind flop against described villain, but it may be results oriented. as played, we more or less played it to stacking off.

this spot is extremely villain specific imo. OP obv played a lot with villain and should probably have seen a similar play in the past and can put villain on a narrower range. tbh, i can´t put him on a range in this spot since this almost never happens, and if it does, it is villain specific.
i could try to invent some reasons here in either direction , but honestly, i think sitting in front of my computer, reading through a hand history and and facing a spot i almost never face i don´t think i can offer any good thoughts here.

OP- i think in this spot you might get some well thought posts in either direction, but i don´t think it will/can help you. this spot is too villain specific.

Lol @ not 3balling or 4balling PF this guy or cbetting the flop, hand is played great but the ch/ship is gross

You need to 3bet more, and bet less OTF imo

I wouldn't say you are "getting fooled" when you stack off flush over flush versus an aggrotard deep stacked fish.

However, I would probably fold here, he has all the suited 2 pair combos, sets etc. in his range (also the straight draws) but we need a huge bluff frequency to be good here with the bet size.

thanks for all the reply's of course I folded the hand and was a gentleman and said nice hand and racked up. On my way back past the table I made it a point to tell him what a great play it was to try and get some info. He is the type of guy that after he kills you for a big pot he wants to fist bump ya. The regs all live with this behavior as he has thickened up a lot of our rolls repeatedly.

I think if I check back this flop or make a weaker post flop bet things could have been different. I think he has the balls and the money to do this with a straight draw as well so its just a sick spot.

While the drive home was less that comfortable in my head given the circumstances and the villain I would play it the same if it was to ever come up again which I am not sure I am comfortable with. Seems as big of a fish as he is he may not see it as a reg willing to lay-down one pair hands but rather as a reg that is playing scared money.

Time will tell and my friends or other regs will inform me what the table talk was after I left.

Checking back flop is infinitely superior to betting in this spot vs this villain

Everything seems fine except for flop sizing. If I'm cold 4betting, and get a dry board like this, I'm going for ~1/2 PSB for three streets. If you're going to bet close to pot on flop, it feels like the pot's going to get too big for a one pair hand this deep.

No shame in this. Deep stack play is much more difficult than most posters think. It isn't skill so much as being able to forget that the chips have any value outside of the game. If your villain believes that the chips mean something to you while it doesn't to him, he has a huge advantage over you.

Well played imo, though action is clearly read-dep in the live setting.

He 3-bet pre, so even though he is loose and splashy, I'd underweight 2-pr hands and draws in his range. It is close after evaluating the combos of AA/AK/77/66, but this deep I'd give credit. Your hand is also transparent at this point.

Has villain 3bet yet? Has he gotten out of line preflop yet? What types of hands has he been 3betting with pf and what kind of hands have you seen him min raise preflop before?

If he's getting out of line (and I'm referring to Tonight, not previous nights) preflop 3betting with AXs, suited connectors and small pairs then I think this is a fold. If he isn't 3betting with suited connectors and small pocket pairs this is pretty much a different story.

Keep in mind he's probably calling your 4bet with 100% of his range so 4bet calling range shouldnt apply to him. Also, your hand is pretty much face up as either AK or AA and since you made a psb villain is never putting you on top set. Is he capable of knowing you have no better than AK and couldn't call a shove? You said he likes to put ppl in tough spots, this seems like a great time to put you in a tough spot with your hand face up.

Overall I'm not dying to call a check raise against this player, I'm more comfortable checking back the flop with likely the best hand knowing villain is probably betting 100% of his range on the turn and river and I'm happy calling 2 psb unimproved as is.

I think the thread is seriously over repping Villians range. Hero's read is an aggresive whale who like to splash money and put people to the test. My guess is that he is extremely loose preflop even though hero doesn't say. If he is loose preflop all manners of Aces are in his range as well as random hands that have paired the 7 or the 6 as well as randome straight draws.
Would I normally stack off 400+BB with top pair top kicker on the flop? No, but that is exactly what Villian is having fun taking advantage of. Unless hero's has a specific read on the guy as strong and or there is more to his read than what hero posted, take a deep breath and call. Sure villian can have two pair and sets, and if he does rap the table tell him NH and reload.

I did once have a maniac open shove an A high board to my 3bet with AQ and he got stacked Bt my AK for 180bb effective, so It's definitely possible.the thing is hero doesn't give us any history on villains 3bet tendencies or overshove tendencies so we really have.no clue what his range is.