Hero ($1000): Viewed as very TAG, table has a ton of respect any time I put money in the pot, especially post flop. I have shown zero bluffs (over a few hours at the table) and a couple people even have commented that if I bet, I always have the goods.

Villain ($1,500): Late 20's/early 30's Asian, competent but definitely has some leaks. He is stuck about 1k for the day and has been hinting that he really doesn't want to lose any more (scared money to me..). He even hesitated for 1-2 minutes to call an all in with JQo on an 89s10 flop because he was afraid that the flush was coming.

The hand....
Pre flop: 3 limps to hero who limps 10J in the hijack. Cutoff limps, Button raises to 30. Fishy UTG calls ($800), loose passive MP calls ($1,300), hero calls ($1,000), CO calls ($900).
***The table has been extremely loose passive all night with almost every flop going ~5 way, and very few big PF raises from my left. All of villain's raises have been way too small for this table, he is betting this amount with both medium strength hands and premiums. If I had to guess: 88+, AQ+, with a very small mixture of random SC's, baby pairs, etc.

Flop: (5 way, $150 in pot): K9K
Checks to hero who checks, CO checks, Villain pots $150.
Folds to hero, who raises to $400 (and ready to call all shoves for the remaining <$600).

Thoughts??? Pre-flop line (I don't love it, but I felt a slight edge at this table), flop c/r, sizing, etc...


*** Villain's full pot on this flop really threw me off here. I had not seen him pot a flop like this, and it really felt like Js/Qs/As. I don't think villain ever does this with a boat/quads, so I have outs no matter what but I always hate drawing on paired boards. It's also worrisome that I can really only rep 99 here, but I feel like I have so much fold equity (and equity if called) against this opponent. And I wasn't too worried about the CO waking up with a hand b/c he completely checked out while I was deciding how much to raise.

well it seems pretty spewy to me but at least I don't think you can be drawing dead LOL.

Against this Villain I think I like it. I can't imagine what he's potting the flop with, but he wants you guys out, so I doubt it's KK or 99. The only hand I think he won't fold is AK, especially with the Ah, and AQhh. He might not fold AxAh, but he might. I'm sure someone will do the math, but I like it here.

Of course, what is he potting the flop with that doesn't have a K or the Ah?

Raise pre.

As played, I think I like a flop lead for $90, followed by a turn bet/fold for $250ish better than a flop C/R/call. I think he dumps the big pps you're targetting OTT, and you avoid getting it in unimproved against the Kx portion of his range.

Pre is fine. I'm a nit and probably x/c flop or even possibly x/f.

So a guy who is a good player who is losing and has then started to nit it up just made a huge flop bet on a KK9 hh flop and you want to raise it?

Do we really have tht much fold equity? I could easily see Vil show up with AK here.

Let's say we just call and a flush does come. We are getting another street of value because Vil won't fold one more street hoping to fill up.

I guess vs a different Vil I could see the merits of this but I can't see us having any fold equity here at all

Pre seems fine.

I also like just checking the flop, when villain bets I would just flat. A three bet here seems spewy and from the description of V it seems like he is only betting into four other players with a reasonable hand. The pot size bet doesn't necessarily mean a weak hand, occasionally when I have a big hand and it is checked to me after three or four players I don't mind making a pot size bet with the hopes that it looks like I am trying to take down the pot.

His sizing is much more likely to be AK, KQ, 99, maybe AQhh. I think he rarely has AA, QQ, JJ here. Just check call, your draw isn't THAT great on a paired board

I like a raise pre to $40-45 if you think you any of the limpers could fold. If not, limp is fine. A flat on the flop is better with V (as described) betting into 4 players.

The other positives for raising pre is that it increases the chances we'll have position throughout the hand and it might help define V's ranges a bit better.

People pot flops for different reasons. I have no idea why this guy does it; but just based on his mubsy state of mind, I think cr probably has more FE than it usually would. He's probably not going anywhere with trips, but you never know. If he was hesitant to stack off with a made straight against a FD, then he might fold KQ or KJ. It would be nice to knock out AA, QQ, JJ, TT, AQ and not have to hit the draw. It's a big c-bet from v, but it's still just a c-bet.

I don't think you have enough equity here to raise I might x/c or x/f. Is villain really folding trips here reping 99 or K9, AK unless you shove which I think is spew?

With an open-end straight flush draw I check-raise, I think I fold with a gut-shot straight flush draw and pair on board, but that's just because I'm pretty nitty lol.

I actually advocate donking into this flop @$80-$100...believe you're hand is more disguised and you might get to see your card cheaper by doing so against a scared-money tight nit who is just going to bomb away with his AK, AA, KQ on flop but is scared to put in a raise. Believe you have 0 fold equity so don't ever like raising on this flop against described player (especially on a paired board). Added bonus, is if he does have TT-QQ, then betting on flop could fold these out as well.

Grunch:

I like almost nothing about this hand. If you're willing to call a raise with JTs, why not just raise yourself?

If I thought I had fold equity here, I would lead this flop, not check/raise. The reason is because this is not the kind of board I'd expect Villain to c-bet and then fold to a raise on. There's a pair of kings on board; trip kings is such an obvious hand for anyone to have. I expect that if Villain doesn't have a king, he's checking back a ton, so I won't get the check/raise in. On the other hand, leading the flop puts pressure on both him (if he doesn't have a king) and anyone else who caught a small piece of this board.

Once I check and Villain bets, I hate the raise. Not because I would never check/raise with this kind of hand, but because, as you said yourself, sizing matters. It's not just that he bet--he bet full pot. Based on your description of Villain (particularly him not wanting to lose more money), do you think he's doing this with something other than exactly Kx? And your hand, even though technically you have a combo draw, doesn't really want to play for stacks against the Kx Villain can have. Calling also isn't too great. It sounds nitty, but I think I might fold to this bet. Overall it's not a good scenario.

By the way, I don't expect the described Villain to show up with 99, but this would be a good line by Villain if he did have it.

the comments you made about pre are somewhat startling- i hope you werent suggesting that you would fold JTs rather than limp it. id probably raise depending on dynamics and stuff, but overlimping is certainly fine. you said the only hand you can rep is 99; you should definitely have K9s here (and KTs/KJo although you prob wouldnt c/r them), and i dont think you should really even have 99 here, raising is gonna be better almost always.

this guy probably doesnt stack off without a boat, and he ~never has a boat, so you can probably show a profit just piling here; that being said, its generally not a profitable venture to try to get people to fold trips (much less nut trips) at 2/5, so youre probably just best of c/c flop c/f blank turns. i think if your plan is just get him to fold his whole range, b/3b flop (if raised) or b/b/jam are probably better, but its close. another advantage to betting is that if another player calls as well, you can probably barrel them off higher flush draws.

disagree with CMV about why not raise yourself if you will call a raise, these two EV calcs arent really related, and there are plenty of scenarios/hands where you would rather just overlimp/overcall (ie spots like this where there are several limpers ahead, you have a hand like this that plays very well multiway high spr so limping is definitely profitable, and when someone raises behind you there will often be a multiway pot when the limpers ahead inevitably call)

also disagree that if he had 99 he played it well. why on earth would you pot the flop and get people to consider folding bare flush draws (or even combo draws) when they are drawing dead and will put money in the pot. you also probably narrow your perceived range quite a bit and take out a lot of the air you could have, so people might eventually find a fold on later streets with Kx which is kind of a disaster.

flatting pre is good i actually dont like a raise. I dont like your raise on the flop tho with a pair board. I like a lead or a flat more then raising.

I really like your idea of donking out here. The reason I didn't take a c/c line was because I hate the situation it gets me in on almost every single turn (even if I hit my flush it is tricky to maximize value), but I didn't even consider donking at the time. Leading out puts a lot of the pressure on him if he does have a PP, he can rarely raise over the top, and I can still rep a pretty wide range like you mentioned.

I'm still a little surprised that no one sees any fold equity in my c/r vs this opponent to fold his PP's at the bare minimum. I guess most of you think he is checking behind all of his high PP's rather than c-betting them here? Just curious on that. My c/r was based on quite a few assumptions though, and I'm basically risking my 1k stack to take down just 300 in the pot, so I definitely see the spewiness behind it.

Also, at this table I liked just limping behind the 3 limpers because my odds of narrowing the field from a raise were pretty slim against them, and it would just create a multi-way low SPR situation with a high SPR hand.

As for the results:

But when you called the raise pre-flop you were in that exact situation. It seems like you notice that it's not a great spot to put yourself in. Why did you do it?

If you raise at least you have a chance of being in position which is a huge thing.

Flush draws only hit about one-third of the time.

Committing 80bb with 120bb left on a paired board, particularly paired K's, just does not seem like a wise decision when you are at most on a 12 out draw(likely 10 or 11). Even if he has JJ-AA, you are getting it in bad 100% of the time when the money goes in.

I am fine losing some money on this hand, but committing 200bb on a non OESF draw when you know you are behind is just bad poker. You need to pot control a little here and either c/c flop or donk into him with a blocker bet. Once that Ace hits, you are now losing to his entire described range with 1 card to come and can easily fold.

Well, it's not just that, as I said before. It's also the sizing--the fact that he is betting full pot.

This bet size doesn't say, "I have air and I want to see if I can take it down"--because then why not bet less? It also probably doesn't say "I have a pocket pair and want to see where I'm at"--because then, also, he's risking too much if he runs into someone else with Kx. I might be wrong about how he'd size it without Kx, but combined with your read that he is stuck and afraid of losing more, I don't think I am. If he had a hand that could easily be no good, he'd check behind or bet less.

Instead, with his sizing he's clearly saying, "I know I have the best hand". The reason I think your check/raise is spew is because you aren't making the best use of the information he gave you with his sizing.

Grunching ...

Pre is ok. We are deep, however oop vs. two others. Given table conditions, appears that limping > raising from HJ. With BTN I'm likely raising.

Flop - I think the PSB could easily be KQ/AK. Opponent is worried about variance, concerned about draws. I think raising is the least optimal option, with little FE imo. I'd lean fold given the paired board, PSB and being oop.

Will read other posts now.