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2/5 check or bet river? 2/5 check or bet river?

12-31-2014 , 01:02 AM
Hero $600, card dead for the 3 hours at table but youngest player at a table of rich middle age to older guys who don't wanna get bluffed or beat by 25 year old with his hood up

Villian $2000 50s involved in a lot of pots raising pre a good amount saw him raise preflop then triple barrel AJ on AQ10xx and lose to limped AK.

In the one pot we played I bet $60 into $80 with A6hh on K8104hh on the turn and he called with 77, river was a 6 and it went check check

Villian limps in MP Hero raises to $20 in CO with A7ss BB calls Villian calls

Flop ($60) A82ccs checks to Hero bets $35 BB folds villian calls
Turn ($130) 10s giving me backdoor flush draw, I bet $95 villian calls
River ($320) 7c giving me 2 pair but completing flush draw, Villian checks, Hero?

I tanked river on whether to bet or check. Although I rivered 2 pair I couldn't think of a hand that calls me that I beat. He limped preflop so he can't have AJ+. I thought I would of heard from A2 and 108 before the river.
2/5 check or bet river? Quote
12-31-2014 , 01:34 AM
Hint: Take your hood down and chat with these guys. They are your customers, and you'll get way more action.

As for this hand, I check it back. You have SDV you want to realize, and V might c/r air here if he thinks you could be blown off your hand based on the previous one. Most of his raising range would be flushes, so we can't call a c/r. We might be losing a little bit of value against his weak aces, but I don't think we're getting many calls from them if we bet again on this board. I could be wrong, and if he were a more typical passive MAWG V, I'd def b/f for value.
2/5 check or bet river? Quote
12-31-2014 , 02:08 AM
If you don't think he ever limp calls AJ that's a bunch of combos that he can't have to pay-off a value bet.

There's a bunch of club combos he could have.

It's always hard to range a Villain over the internet. OP, is this close to the range that you think will call or raise?

Board: Ac 8c 2s Ts 7c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.313% 43.75% 01.56% 28 1.00 { 88, 22, KcJc, KcTc, Kc9c, Kc8c, QcJc, QcTc, Qc9c, Qc8c, JcTc, Jc9c, Jc8c, Tc9c, Tc8c, Tc7c, 9c8c, 9c7c, 9c6c, 8c7c, 8c6c, 7c6c, 7c5c, 6c5c, 6c4c, 5c4c, 4c3c, ATo-A2o }
Hand 1: 54.688% 53.13% 01.56% 34 1.00 { As7s }

Personally I would have probably bet 35, 70, 140, flop, turn, and river. I wouldn't have made the turn bet so large (as a % of the pot) compared to the flop bet.
2/5 check or bet river? Quote
12-31-2014 , 02:15 AM
Bet big making it unlikely he raises u on a bluff. He may be overplaying hands so I don't like the x back

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2/5 check or bet river? Quote
12-31-2014 , 02:41 AM
Nothing wrong with checking behind and that may indeed be best here.

although I would consider your previous history with him where you checked back river. What I'm getting at is does he have any reason to believe you would bet 3 streets w/ Ax or a hand w/ show down value? it's seems like the potential is there given dynamic that if you bet the river he'd be more apt to think your bluffing and call down w/ worse.

How active have you been pre. have you been abusing limpers when ip? I'd guess you are and I could see him limp calling A9-AQ thinking he's trapping the young agro kid. I would be thinking about this along with how often he would check his made flushes otr as opposed to betting.

IDK this has to be a decision made in game, checking behind is certainly fine, but it feels like this guy can be wider than flushes and wouldn't be afraid to pay off a river bet. As someone else said, if you do bet here, bet on the larger side of life.
2/5 check or bet river? Quote
12-31-2014 , 03:42 AM
He doesn't seem very good to me given the previous hand histories.

I think bet/fold $200 is best.
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12-31-2014 , 04:37 AM
I think that you are right he can never call with worse, so you should check behind.

Not to derail your thread, but I am more more interested in the previous hand you played. There I think you could have bet the river. What stopped you? What was the action preflop and on the flop?
2/5 check or bet river? Quote
12-31-2014 , 07:25 AM
You're never gonna crush this game if you can't make this bet. Villain is nearly always paying off when he has worse...what games are you playing anyways? Old guy called preflop, called flop, called big bet on turn, and now you expect him to fold top pair on the river vs some young punk in a hoodie? In order for our river bet to be profitable we have to be called by worse more than 50% of the time. This is definitely a profitable bet and we expect that some 50+ year old might bluff raise this river? That won't happen in a million years.
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12-31-2014 , 09:12 AM
Definitely a river bet. I think villain's standard line with the nuts on the river is betting.
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12-31-2014 , 09:37 AM
Seriously we need to b/f this river as a straight value bet. In past hands this V is a station for sure. We'll get looked up by a lone A and worse two pair. If by some chance he bluff c/r us, god bless. This guy needs to be valuetowned.

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2/5 check or bet river? Quote
12-31-2014 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishInAPhoneBooth
I think that you are right he can never call with worse, so you should check behind.

Not to derail your thread, but I am more more interested in the previous hand you played. There I think you could have bet the river. What stopped you? What was the action preflop and on the flop?
In the other hand It was raised to $20 from HJ button called he called in LB and I called in BB flop got checked through so I bet turn, when he called I figured he had Kx or some sort of draw himself. When i hit a pair on the river i checked back because i had some showdown valie and if he called $60 OTT I figure him to call with any piece again, definitely didn't expect him to have a pocket pair below 2 cards on board.
2/5 check or bet river? Quote
12-31-2014 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker
You're never gonna crush this game if you can't make this bet. Villain is nearly always paying off when he has worse...what games are you playing anyways? Old guy called preflop, called flop, called big bet on turn, and now you expect him to fold top pair on the river vs some young punk in a hoodie? In order for our river bet to be profitable we have to be called by worse more than 50% of the time. This is definitely a profitable bet and we expect that some 50+ year old might bluff raise this river? That won't happen in a million years.
I thought it was unlikely to get 3 streets from worse, even if he had non 2 pair Ax he would be scared of flush coming in himself. Besides the one turn bet he called me, he generally has had the lead in hands he's played so I wouldn't really call him a station.
I know he opens AJ+ pre given the first hand I posted about him
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12-31-2014 , 11:20 AM
Calling station or not, players at this level don't like to fold rivers after putting lots of money in the pot on previous streets.
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12-31-2014 , 11:50 AM
Definitely bet - don't think he can fold an A for $125. Also agree w putting the hood down
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