$2-$5 brand new table been playing about 30 mins. We have $420 in the sb and are dealt 67

Old guy limps mid post. Active 30ish guy playing $700ish makes it $15. Decent enough Button playing $500 calls, we call, BB completes, old limper calls.

Pot $75

Flop 58K

Check, check, check. OR bets $60 pretty quickly.... button tank raises to $150.

WYG?

Is this always a ship for us?

I ran some quick numbers and the calling range I assigned for the button has you at about 38.5%, so we need folds around 20% of the time for shipping to be profitable. Does the button ever have AK or KQ here? I think he would 3 bet AK most of the time pre.
The range I assigned for him calling you AI was 55,88, 3 combos of AsXs, and 4 combos of KsXs. Not including the suited ace combos lowers your equity by about 1%.
This is ignoring the times that the OR has AsKs and KK. I probably would ship this spot at the table, but if the button is only raising sets/K-hi flush draws then its a fold.

If OR calls with AK or worse then its a ship, and if button is ever raising hands outside the range I assigned above then its also a ship.

I'd say you have no more than 5% fold equity in this spot. I would fold, but I would also lead out a good portion of the time.

Yeah we likely don't have FE in this spot vs. a raise but we aren't doing bad vs. a set or 2-pair in this spot it's close to a flip.

I don't think we should call all the way down either, because of the implied odds issue. I mean if we call and bink a OTT and start giving action villain's may fold.

I just GII here given the pot size.

Fold pre, no joke here we are in the SB not even the BB, would u cold call 15 bucks in the SB with this hand online?

I think fold pre as I don't like playing suited connectors OOP and as played shove. If you won't shove this flop with less than 100BB why even bother playing 76s?


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Agree that we have minimal fold equity, but folding with a straight-flush draw in this spot is a mistake imo.

PF calling a raise with a SC oop with only 84 BB even if we assume it's going multi-way is a mistake, just muck it.

ship ship baby

should probably squeeze this pre a high % of the time, calling is obviously fine

I think just calling here is ok because you want to feed your odds with overcalls by the OR, he shouldn't be folding very often, I'm obviously assuming you have no FE from the BTN, so not sure if shipping is necessary, better to draw OR in

would lead this most of the time on the flop tho, it's the most efficient way to square your odds

Against the range the first reply gave, if we have zero FE shoving is -EV by about $30-40.

I think his range is a little wider than that though. If we add AKo to that range, we gain 6% equity and it turns the shove EV to positive.

Also without doing the math, the fact that the original raiser could call our shove should only be a benefit...we actually have ~2% more equity against two players (using first reply's range for both) with 67s than bottom set.

I guess pray set over set so the board is less likely to pair. Can't fold an open ended straight flush draw but we can fold pre 80 BB's deep OOP with a speculative hand.

Fold pre.

I disagree with leading out on this board. After this pot was raised PF, this kind of board literally rarely checks through multiway. This is the nut-spot to go for a check-raise semibluff.

I agree with you that hero has little to no fold equity once this pot gets 3-bet on the flop, and has to make a lol hero fold with such a strong hand.

Appreciate all the responses.

My thoughts:

-definitely happy to peel pre and give up if we totally brick the flop
-definitely have no FE versus at least one opponent

Here's what happened

Shipped.

OR tanked for a good two mins before reshipping. Button folded AA face up.

OR shows K5 os and turn and river come red deuce red queen so we ended up with 7 high in a $1k+ pot which is marvellous

Thanks all

nothing wrong with this result

I definitely like just calling in this spot, you are actually losing money when one person calls and one folds and you rarely if ever get 2 folds

grunch. Probably a fold pre with a $420 stack but whatever.

As played, ship it.

1. Top off your stack
2. Fold > call preflop

In my games $15 over $5 is a weak open so I choose to 3-bet 76s in this spot. I would raise to $70-75 and expect to get folds enough to show an immediate profit.

Hold the phone here.... button flats after a raise and a call of $15 with AA. How good can this guy actually be??

Refer to this hand: 2/5 NL: AKs Facing BTN Flat/4! 220 BB's Deep.

It's totally genius when hero wakes up with AK in the BB; otherwise, not so much.

I think my description was 'decent enough' ...prob seems about right. He's facing an open from a competent reg, in position though he should know he's likely going 5 handed to this flop which is never optimal with AA.

lol wut? No, a "decent enough" player is never overcalling a weak open with AA IP, and also it is definitely not likely to go 5 handed when he 3bets to ~$60. Most fish know to 3bet AA in this situation.

Might I add that 3betting AA against a competent reg is way more +EV for even the worst player than flatting this "raise" if we can even call it that.

$15 was the standard open for the table - not once had anyone raised more or less so a) it was not seen as a "weak open".

And b) I am agreeing with you saying it's not optimal at all to go 5 handed with AA.

His play is kind of irrelevant to my OP anyway but thanks for the useful input.

The relevance is a matter of perspective I guess. Had he 3bet his aces you muck and this is never a thread...

Thread was asking for comments on how I had played the hand not whether my read of an opponent's ability was spot on or whether he played his hand optimally but again, thanks for the nit picky reply, you seem like a really cool guy that people love to hang out with.

**ends**

I think we got off on the wrong foot here. Lets start over...


Fold pre.

As played its standard.

Sorry you didn't hit, bro.

wtf? just keep clicking the call button.