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Old 06-11-2015, 07:04 PM   #1
Garick
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2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

Afternoon game of 2/5 at Caesar's Palace. Was first 2/5 table of the day, and very action-y. Lots of limp/calling, lots of TPTK = nuts, etc.

The cast
V1: Gambool fish. Loves to see flops. Has a history of calling PFRs with bad hands (A2o, K4s, etc) and donk overbetting the flop when he hits. Ludicrously overvalues TP. Example hand: 5-way limped pot. Board AT6r. V donks for $50 into $23, and then turns over A2 like it's the nuts when everyone folds) ($450 remain of his third buy-in in an hour).

V2: Mid-life crisis wannabe grinder. Just sat down a few mins ago and told me that he's from Dallas and has been bartending for 15 years, but took a leave of absence from his job and moved to Vegas to "see how poker goes" with the potential to transfer to the local branch of the mid-level Italian chain restaurant he was working at in Dallas if he has to. Also told me that he rarely played at Winstar, because it was so far away, or at any of the underground games in Dallas, as they seemed sketchy. In other words, the kind of person we regularly tell that they shouldn't move to Vegas and go pro, as they don't even know if they're beating the game yet. ($550)

Hero: Doubt image matters much to these guys (esp V1), but prob a MAWG tourist image. Been chatting it up keeping the game talking. A bit looser than usual pre, as I've been playing a lot of speculative hands whenever V1 is in, looking to get my share before it runs out. (covers)

One million limpers, including V1 from MP. Hero overlimps QTo OTB. V2 completes SB, BB checks.

Pot $35
Flop QT5r
Checks to V1 who bets $75
Folds to hero
Hero notices that BB and one limper are telegraphing folds and decides to flat. I'm pretty sure I can get V1 to do the betting for me to try to "get me off my draw," and fear that even against this marlin raising this huge overbet will lose him. (comments on this line welcome)

V2 raises to $200 and looks pretty comfortable
V1 seems upset and flats
Hero???
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:15 PM   #2
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

Raise to $50 or so pre.

As played... Top 2p with 100bb stacks. GII.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:33 PM   #3
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

Overlimp or raise pre is fine. All in now.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:51 PM   #4
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

V2 screams 55 or KJ.

More combos of KJ than 55.

Live read leans towards 55 due to Vs comfort level and he seems like the type of player who would milk this for a c/r in a limped pot.

If so you have outs. GII.

Oh, I guess possibility of something fancy like limped AA/KK? Sorry, your description of V makes me feel sad and I can't take him seriously. Sorry bro go back to work at Buca.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:58 PM   #5
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

V2 could have a hand like t5s or q5s, since he limped in sb with lots in before. kj and 55 are also possible here.

110bb eff deep = GLAI

if you run into 55 then it's just a pretty coolerish spot.
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Old 06-11-2015, 08:06 PM   #6
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

Just realized V was in SB. Sorry, I was on a conference call.

Somebody's been set up. GII and find out who. My guess is V.
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Old 06-11-2015, 08:26 PM   #7
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

I like the limp hoping to flop well vs V1. On the flop I like the flat call, this guy will boost the pot all on his own. Not to mention value own himself with Tp. Once villan 2 raises I think flatting turn is fine. I don't expect there to be any draws in his range really and I'd hate to give top pair or any two pair a reason to fold. If he has 55 then I think it's very unlucky. We can get stacks in on the turn with less than a PSB behind.
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:18 PM   #8
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

Since V limped his small blind, he can have basically ATC here, except I assume he raises QQ pre, and maybe TT as well. Assume he has 2p+, that leaves him w 1 combo of TT, 3 combos of 55, 4 combos of QT, and 6 combos each of Q5 and T5. We're ahead of that range even before adding in KJ, J9 or weirdly played AQ or KQ. I also think most of that range is calling at this point so I shove.

Only thing that could change the above is your read. Hard to say if you're not there, but in order to fold here you need to think he basically only has top two pair or better. Other thing to bear in mind is that I assume V1 is calling a shove, and even if V2 has 55 we have 4 outs to triple up.
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:32 PM   #9
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

I have to agree w Lapidator that for 100 BB and Vil 1 not going anywhere that I have a tough time finding a fold button. I think without a strong read there's too many AQ/KQ/KK+ in Vil2s range to fold comfortably. Even if he Vil2 has 55 we're still 16%.

Is it really that big of a deal if either triples anyway? We rebuy and continue the hunt against relatively soft players

Sorry also just caught that VIL2 is SB definitely going w the hand beating every 2 pair combo from the SB
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:48 PM   #10
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

ALL IN!! Only hand we are worried about here is 55, should be way ahead of both ranges since V2 is SB and V1 loves himself some top pair.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:10 PM   #11
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

You'd need to range V2 as 2pair+ only for it to be a fold. Not sure what benefit there would be to a call.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:13 PM   #12
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

Shove, expect to see SB have KQ
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:14 PM   #13
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

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Originally Posted by sungar78 View Post
Sorry also just caught that VIL2 is SB definitely going w the hand beating every 2 pair combo from the SB
I really shouldn't be contributing to threads when I am listening in on people droning about content management systems.

Totally missed that V2 flatted. Think KJ/TP is more likely in V2 range because he lead but hates the raise and still wants to play. That makes V1 more likely T5 and 55, as otherwise all four queens are out.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:25 PM   #14
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

its 100 bigs with top 2, so get it in. in a limped pot tho, ime, this is 55 like 90% of the time
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:41 PM   #15
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

Does not compute. If his range is heavily dominated by 55, who cares that we have top 2 and only 100BB effective? If he has all 55 combos and just one combo we beat, we only have 16.8% equity and should turbo fold. I realize you're probably exaggerating when you say 90%, but just because we have a strong hand and are only 100 bigs deep does not mean that we should shut off our brains.

So, how dominated by 55 do you think his range actually is?
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:02 PM   #16
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

I am shoving after the fish flats. If V2 has 55, so be it. but this is often AA, KK, or AQ, from an inexperienced underground player. but 200 dead fish dollars in there, can't help but shove.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:03 PM   #17
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

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Originally Posted by suited fours View Post
You'd need to range V2 as 2pair+ only for it to be a fold. Not sure what benefit there would be to a call.
Is it a fold then even. Like we crush T5 and Q5 he has at least as many of those as 55. Unless he only completes suited versions of those hands, but even then we have 40% vs range
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:04 PM   #18
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

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Originally Posted by Garick View Post
Does not compute. If his range is heavily dominated by 55, who cares that we have top 2 and only 100BB effective? If he has all 55 combos and just one combo we beat, we only have 16.8% equity and should turbo fold. I realize you're probably exaggerating when you say 90%, but just because we have a strong hand and are only 100 bigs deep does not mean that we should shut off our brains.

So, how dominated by 55 do you think his range actually is?
the way you described him, not much.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:08 PM   #19
Garick
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

That was directed at the poster above, who'd said it was 90% 55 (but also said GII?)
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:31 PM   #20
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

why do you not include t5 and q5 OP? can you really not see these being possible? who cares if one guy in the thread assigns some meaningless opinion based percentage of 55
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:46 PM   #21
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

Not worried about V1 at all. V2 is never (semi) bluffing here - at least in his mind. Does he really think a hand like KQ is the nuts because he's scared of V1 drawing and he wants him to fold now? Would he flat from the SB with AQ and then c/r? Without knowing he does this with one pair it just feels like he has a set here often unless... Only other strong hands he does this with are 2 pears. Since it limped and he was in the blinds he could have T5, Q5, and even QT. Tough spot. I think I have to go with the gut/reads here. If gut says fold I don't think it's the worst thing in the world.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:46 PM   #22
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

Oh and you hate when he flips over AQ and it holds vs V1. Puke.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:53 PM   #23
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

I think I'm getting it in when I look at the available combos of 55, KJ, QT, plus other draws and air.

Doesn't seem at all like a fold. Sucks if he shows 55.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:00 AM   #24
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

So V1 has Qx quite often, which leaves one Q in the deck for V2, who has a range like {AQ, QT, T5s, Q5s, 55, TT} and some other stuff like {KJ, J9} which really makes no sense to checkraise this small out of position, but the read indicates he might make this kind of mistake. It's a puzzle, but I don't give V2 a range that is only sets.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:04 AM   #25
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Re: 2/5 Caesar's, Top two with silly action

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Originally Posted by The Rumor View Post
I think I'm getting it in when I look at the available combos of 55, KJ, QT, plus other draws and air.

Doesn't seem at all like a fold. Sucks if he shows 55.
Yeah I just don't see how we can narrow V2 to 55 here. Shove and if he has it go crush VP and have some shots.

I want to know the results!
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