I just want to know what should be the default here..

Game is playing kind loose, eff stacks $700

Hero raises to $15 UTG with AKo, BTN, SB, BB call

Flop ($60): KJ9r
SB checks, BB checks, Hero ???

SB and BB are tight-ish but BTN is kinda ******ed/aggro and bluffs a lot.. I'm scared of being driven off my hand.. should we bet for protection? The board is super-horrid and hits everyone's ranges pretty hard... Are we just letting one street check through here and then vbetting good turns/rivers instead?

Bet $40 and fold to a raise.

Assuming our $40 bet gets called (mainly by BTN), what's your plan on different turns and rivers?

Can't really answer that question w/o reads. Standard line would be to bet safe turn cards and try to extract value from KQ, KT, maybe a JxQx JxTx calls as well. Fold to melt raises

So you're going for 3 streets of value against this guy?

Hi Fizzy,

Im definitely betting flop 40-50.

Im probably looking to get 3 streets on all non straightening cards and b/f all the way.

hi de4d,

You're b/f 3 streets? Isn't the pot going to be too huge by the river?

Say, you bet $50, BTN calls, pot is now $160.
You bet $100 on a blank turn, BTN calls, pot is now $360.
River is a blank, you both have around a PSB left.

Also, do you really think villains will call 3 streets with worse?

I think KQ or similar pair+gut shots will call down. This is somewhat player dependant of course.

With this line we still have like what? 530 in our stack?

We can totally b/f 150-175.

Yeah I guess. Would you play 99/JJ/KK the same?

If I flop sets on this board im B3B on flop.

on turn with straightening cards im betting and then evaluating a raise against the sb/bb and determining odds/equity and the like.

Against the BTN as described im probably GII with him.

I bet the flop for sure. There's a lot of riff raff in the pot that we should be well ahead of. Tough to narrow their ranges too much.

I'd bet safe turns. I might c/f some turns and c/c some turns depending.

If we bet $50 on flop, btn calls. Then, $100 on the turn, btn calls. I could go either way on the river. If you think V will stab with hands like QJ/JT, then I'd c/c. If you think he'd check back his QJ/JT hands, but might call a bet, then bet.

Definitely betting flop $40 to $50. From there it depends on who call/raises. Too many variables. I probably follow through on non-straightening turns if checked to. Bet folding against tight players all the way. Re-evaluate against BTN.

Fizzy, your not betting for protection. Your betting for value.

Bet all safe turns. Prolly check/call River vs button.

If I where you. I would post less hands on here. Post 1 or 2. And focus on them. Slow down a bit, concentrate on concepts, and answers you recieve.

Just my 2 cents

I like a bet of about $35-$45 on the flop. The board is wet so you want to get value from the draws and also charge them something for the privilege. Also, c-betting gives you the chance to buy the button for the turn and river play.

As far as turn play, it depends on your opponents and the type of game. Ahead of time, like when you have folded another hand, you need to be thinking about which type of hands are profitable to play big pots with. Does TPTK rate to be a favorite when all the chips go in against these villains? If so, keep betting roughly the size of the pot on each street because you want to play a big pot. If not, then you want to take a pot control line and check the turn.

That said, as a pure default when playing deep stacked, you usually want to be checking behind a lot with TPTK for pot control. Also, it induces river bluffs from your opponents. And it entices them to call your river value bets since the turn check made them think your hand was weak.

This, you dont "bet for protection" or to control pot sizes.

Troll?

If you are pretty sure you have the best hand and your opponent is on a draw, then the correct play is to bet more than he can profitably call. That's simply an application of the Fundamental Theorem of Poker.

What do you mean?

Your reason your betting here is for big fat value. There are a ton of hands here that when we bet we get calls from.

There are a ton of pair plus gutshot draws, that are going to call 2 streets.

Even if we bet full pot "for protection" (I hate this line of thinking"

They still have correct odds to draw.

So continue to lead, with what is likely the best hand. If we get raised, we likely can fold knowing we are behind.

TBH, this is not a flop I am at all comfortable with, when I have AK. It's the worse one ever actually. Add to that, all the potentially horrid straightening turns that could leave us clueless if we decide to check and an aggro tricky bluffy tard bets into us.

I understand we may be ahead here a good % of the time. But two things going against us in this hand are: a) a tricky V after us b) a marginal hand OOP

What I'm trying to say is, V could easily just flatcall with hands that beat us to trap, and then we just bloated the pot so huge to bet/bet/bet and get almost committed by the river that it sucks to fold. OTOH, if we check one street, we can tone it down.

If you are gonna check TPTK everytime you see a scary board, you are losing massive amounts value.

Two pair and sets will be afraid of this board to. And will raise this flop. So we can easily fold.

You have major case of MUB's.

Bet/fold>check/call

There are often competing principles in poker.

I don't like to think in terms of "We have the best hand blast the pot..." That sort of thinking leads to mistakes.

Lets say we have 99 and we call a 4 way pot, eff stacks are 400bb

Flop(4bb) 8h 3h 4d
and we feel confident we have the best hand, should we jam 400bb???

I know, that example seems silly right? Well, it is to make a point. Yes, betting to charge draws and betting when we think we are a head is a staple of winning poker, but there are other principles at work. One is to make a bet that lessor hands can call. Another is to play the hand in a way that is commensurate with your hand strength.

The term "Big hand big pot small hand small pot" comes to mind.

When we have AK on a K J 9 board, our AK is a medium hand, so we need to be mindful of that. Our AK has okay equity however it is extremely vulnerable. Whenever we are in situations like this our instinct sometimes will be to try to protect our hand so we don't lose. So a part of us will just want to blast away...

Don't.

on the flip side, we don't want to give odds right?

So where does that leave us? Well, it leaves us with bet/fold lines and even pot controlling lines if eff stacks were fairly deep.

Lastly, you said

Whenever you have a ******ed aggro villain that bluffs a lot, you can never fold to that villain. The only way you can fold to him is if a 4-to-a-straight hit on the board, then a fold isn't terrible. Otherwise, whenever you identify villains like this, never ever fold any half-way decent value hand to them, and by half-way decent I mean as light as mid pair!!!

So in this case, unless the board hits 4-to-a-straight, call whatever he does. Conversely, if the SB or BB wake up and raise, then you can snap fold