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2/5 bet sizing question on action flop 2/5 bet sizing question on action flop

03-15-2016 , 11:08 AM
Hero is early 30s WG, just got moved to this 2/5 table because 1/3 table broke. Has never played 2/5 before but table doesn't know that. Only in for one orbit or so, table seems fairly aggro but no developed reads on specific players yet.

Eff. stacks $350.

Hero (UTG +2) has AA, raises to $25

MP calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop ($100) A K T

SB checks. Hero bets...?
2/5 bet sizing question on action flop Quote
03-15-2016 , 12:31 PM
Bets ~$75 and never folds for less than 100bb?
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03-15-2016 , 12:36 PM
At least $75 to set up PSB ott with one caller. Don't fold.
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03-16-2016 , 10:30 AM
Apparently not a lot of input on this hand.

Hero bet $100, all players folded.
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03-16-2016 , 11:27 AM
Not really much to this spot IMO. You are an unknown, so you will be treated as ABC until proven otherwise. $75 does seem perfect since you would have $250 to put into $250/325 on the Turn if you wanted.

I'm pretty much always betting here with a min of $60 which basically gives 3 to 1 for an opponent to call with their draws. With you not being a 2/5 reg this may not 'mentally' be a 'never folding' spot but it really should be.

By betting pot on the Flop you are basically opening yourself up to only being called when behind or someone on a super draw where you are flipping. That's not such a bad thing with top set, but until you prove to 'these guys' that you bet this way with AK/AQc/KK also then you really can't expect too many chasers when they 'know' your stack is now committed if they don't improve on the Turn the are almost stuck calling it off. GL
2/5 bet sizing question on action flop Quote
03-16-2016 , 11:34 AM
Yeah, in retrospect $75 may have been better. Just seemed like the wettest of wet flops in a 4-way pot, which screamed to me "pot it." And I didn't know if people would fold for $100 when they would've called for $75.
2/5 bet sizing question on action flop Quote
03-16-2016 , 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwolyswoND
Apparently not a lot of input on this hand.

Hero bet $100, all players folded.
Well you started with $325 so it isn't like you have a lot of wiggle room. Plus you have the board hit pretty hard since you have the Ac.

I think your bet is too big.$75 is more than enough and probably would have gotten the same folds.

If they have a kq. Aq. Kj. Aj type hand they are calling either bet I think.
2/5 bet sizing question on action flop Quote
03-16-2016 , 05:30 PM
NH
If they don't call $100, they probably don't call $75, and the drawback to $75 is that it leaves $250 behind which is enough in implied odds for a variety of hands to profitably call.
2/5 bet sizing question on action flop Quote
03-16-2016 , 06:22 PM
Why did you bet so much? There's really nothing to be afraid of...I would bet $40-50.
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03-16-2016 , 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Why did you bet so much? There's really nothing to be afraid of...I would bet $40-50.
Awkward stack sizes but $100 is fine as want want to get stacks in on the turn as their are too many bad cards that can come to kill our action.
2/5 bet sizing question on action flop Quote
03-16-2016 , 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Why did you bet so much? There's really nothing to be afraid of...I would bet $40-50.
Yep. We block the NFD. I'd be concerned that a big bet lets KQ,QJ,JT, maybe two pair, maybe a flush draw off the hook. We have huge equity and I think it would be a big mistake to blow any of these hands off with a big flop bet or a turn shove. If the turn bricks all of these hands are drawing slim. We definitely potentially lose value vs Q and J high club draws, but how many combos are those really?
2/5 bet sizing question on action flop Quote
03-16-2016 , 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Why did you bet so much? There's really nothing to be afraid of...I would bet $40-50.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
Yep. We block the NFD. I'd be concerned that a big bet lets KQ,QJ,JT, maybe two pair, maybe a flush draw off the hook. We have huge equity and I think it would be a big mistake to blow any of these hands off with a big flop bet or a turn shove. If the turn bricks all of these hands are drawing slim. We definitely potentially lose value vs Q and J high club draws, but how many combos are those really?
I almost always agree with you two, but I'm OK with a larger bet ~75.

I think a lot of worse hands on this texture give value vs. larger bets.

And there are lots of bad turn cards for you/them (clubs, broadways).

Kookie, if villains might fold hands as strong as KQ, JT (QJ is a straight!), two pair, and flush draws... then with what hands can villains call? Nothing, really. And if villains call with pretty much nothing, you have to c-bet large on this texture with air, right? Air doesn't block Ax, but I'm pretty sure you'll get way > 50% folds with a PSB if people fold the high-equity hands you think they might fold.
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03-16-2016 , 11:01 PM
I would just go $40/110/shove on almost any runout.
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03-16-2016 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman
I almost always agree with you two, but I'm OK with a larger bet ~75.

I think a lot of worse hands on this texture give value vs. larger bets.

And there are lots of bad turn cards for you/them (clubs, broadways).

Kookie, if villains might fold hands as strong as KQ, JT (QJ is a straight!), two pair, and flush draws... then with what hands can villains call? Nothing, really. And if villains call with pretty much nothing, you have to c-bet large on this texture with air, right? Air doesn't block Ax, but I'm pretty sure you'll get way > 50% folds with a PSB if people fold the high-equity hands you think they might fold.
lol. I didn´t express myself well. It´s the plan to shove blanks OTT which I don´t like. Those hands have like 4-7 outs and I don´t want them to fold.

I guess we just size the max OTF that gets called by JT...If we were more multiway would there not be merit in trying to get overcalled by junk like Q9hh, Jx? I have wet dreams about getting called in spots like this by multiple players who block each others outs, are often drawing to the same 2 outs.
2/5 bet sizing question on action flop Quote
03-17-2016 , 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
lol. I didn´t express myself well. It´s the plan to shove blanks OTT which I don´t like. Those hands have like 4-7 outs and I don´t want them to fold.
++

Just because we are willing to gii doesn't mean our opponents want to do the same. Sizing our Flop bet just so we can PSB on the Turn probably isn't the best case for this hand most of the time. We have to determine what range of opponent hands we are attacking with our bet. Why bet so much here to only end up in a 'flipping' type of spot when we can get some of the crushed hands to call as well.

This hand sets up so nicely for 3 streets of value and we are still more than willing to gii if the opponent presses the issue at any point.

Just like the grocery store, sometimes you need to 'discount' your prices in order to get all of the items on the list!! GL
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03-17-2016 , 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
I would just go $40/110/shove on almost any runout.
Agree with this. I'm going to the felt with this hand so I'd want to get as much action as possible.

Only hand that will call/raise a PSB on the flop is QJ or another set.
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03-17-2016 , 09:48 AM
$75 is too large considering we have Ac, I like Wj's bet sizing.
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03-17-2016 , 02:20 PM
I had like to size big flop to be able to shove any non dangerous turn
Bet 80$ and shove turn
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03-17-2016 , 02:54 PM
Id rather go $40-$85-Shove

Definitely maximize value and I am not scared of a club on the turn as we have the Ac.
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03-17-2016 , 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davinho
I had like to size big flop to be able to shove any non dangerous turn
Bet 80$ and shove turn
Hero has the board locked down. What hands are calling $80-100? Why do you need to shove turn when there are only 6 sort of bad turn cards?
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03-17-2016 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Hero has the board locked down. What hands are calling $80-100? Why do you need to shove turn when there are only 6 sort of bad turn cards?
Any club any straight might kill our action or put us in a tough spot if he decided to donk shove or bet big ... Our hand need protection amd with stack size i go with 2 street play
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03-17-2016 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davinho
Any club any straight might kill our action or put us in a tough spot if he decided to donk shove or bet big ... Our hand need protection amd with stack size i go with 2 street play
So your saying our Top Set with Backdoor NFD needs protection?

Do you always play your strong hands like they could be beat instead of trying to extract value?
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03-17-2016 , 04:14 PM
i'd be trying to get the money in over 3 streets
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03-17-2016 , 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonrubs
So your saying our Top Set with Backdoor NFD needs protection?

Do you always play your strong hands like they could be beat instead of trying to extract value?
My sizzing depends on the board and my range, on that flop a good strategy would be bettin this sizzing with top of our range and bluffs, so on the turn we have a pot size bet or slightly overbet so in my game plan i shove.
2/5 bet sizing question on action flop Quote
03-17-2016 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davinho
My sizzing depends on the board and my range, on that flop a good strategy would be bettin this sizzing with top of our range and bluffs, so on the turn we have a pot size bet or slightly overbet so in my game plan i shove.
When bluffing you want to risk the least amount while still being effective. Betting this amount with complete air would be a disaster as then in order to continue with the hand you have to either shove turn or give up completely. You lose the ability to double barrel bluff at all.

And trying to have balance in a 2/5 game is stupid, unless you are playing hundreds of hours with said player.
2/5 bet sizing question on action flop Quote

      
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