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1/3 Flopped Mid Set

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06-24-2014 , 07:46 PM

Zohren

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 223

Hero has ~$375 in stack.
Villain 1 has ~$450
Villain 2 ~$300 and has history with Hero, also pretty passive, folds a lot and gives away his actions in advance pretty frequently.

V1 raises UTG to $12
Hero calls MP with 7h7d
V2 calls from the button.
Blinds fold.

Pot: $36 (after rake)

Flop: Ks 7c 3s

V1 bets out $30
Action on Hero, V2 is ready to fold, pretty reliable tell based on prior knowledge.

Raise or call here, knowing V2 is folding and having position on V1 with middle set?

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06-24-2014 , 08:00 PM

PositivelyKanyon

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 17

I'd raise to 90 on flop still unless v1 has tendency to double or triple barrel light as the PFR.

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06-24-2014 , 08:06 PM

dunderstron!

adept

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 842

If you raise your draws like ever, or you have that image because you are in your 20s, I like a raise to 90 here. If he has a king, he will usually level himself into a call because of the flush draw. Pray that the flush draw doesn't come on the turn and bet it big and bluffy, like 200.

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06-24-2014 , 08:10 PM

TJ Eckleburg12

Only Gives Out Winners

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 15,147

yes definitely raise flop

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06-24-2014 , 08:22 PM

Koss

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 7,099

I like a smallish raise to 70 to set up comfortable turn and river sizings and get some more $ in in case of an action killing spade. Flatting is tempting but there may be too many scare cards for his range to risk it. On a rainbow flop I probably flat.

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06-24-2014 , 08:28 PM

eldiesel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,585

Raise, 70-75, not for balance. For value, to set up playing for stacks, because V isn't folding Kx or spades and he's folding all else even if you just min-raise.

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06-24-2014 , 08:56 PM

Aleksei

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,116

$120, jam turn. It's what I do with my good combo draws.

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06-24-2014 , 09:14 PM

JoeyyyyyG

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 297

I'd donk min raise the flop inducing betting stacks on the turn/river

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06-24-2014 , 09:15 PM

Zohren

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 223

Thanks guys. I have seen villain double and triple barrel. I called, turn was Js, he bets $60, I flat, river 5d. He bets $120. For whatever stupid reason, I level myself into thinking he's got AK/KJ here more often than the flush and I call and he flips 9Ts for the flush. Whoops.

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06-24-2014 , 09:18 PM

#10

BuffaloHound

adept

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 718

No reads on the V1? He seems to be the main Villain here. What's his style? UTG raising range? Does he bet draws? Anything would help...

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06-24-2014 , 10:04 PM

#11

BigSlick2006

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 200

If you raise OTF to like $90-100 you have just over a pot size bet left that you can ship any non flush card.

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06-24-2014 , 10:25 PM

#12

Steve00007

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 9,163

Grunch

Raise. A king could have hit his range. He might put you on a flush draw or a weaker king if you raise. If you slowplay here then you're going to slowplay way too much IMO because there are plenty of boards that your opponent is far more likely to miss. I'd hope he has a king or AA and try to get his stack, which is much easier to do if you start building the pot now instead of waiting for the turn.

Also, if you wait for the turn, a flush card or an ace could kill your action and cause him to fold.

Checking here is what bad players do. They keep the pot small when they're way ahead.

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06-24-2014 , 10:57 PM

#13

Aleksei

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,116

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSlick2006

If you raise OTF to like $90-100 you have just over a pot size bet left that you can ship any non flush card.

You can also ship on flush cards. If V calls worse than a flush you're ahead. If he doesn't you have outs and are semibluffing to balance the times you have the NF here.

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06-24-2014 , 11:04 PM

#14

dunderstron!

adept

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 842

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleksei

You can also ship on flush cards. If V calls worse than a flush you're ahead. If he doesn't you have outs and are semibluffing to balance the times you have the NF here.

I'm not so sure. A lot of villains at this level are mubsy and will fold their kings when the flush comes in. Shipping here will often just get you called by better. (Not worried about balancing at this level.)

It could be that your style is more aggressive than mine and your big bets get called more.

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06-24-2014 , 11:26 PM

#15

Aleksei

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,116

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunderstron!

I was reasoning that if Villain's call off range is flushes and only flushes then you have way over the required FE for a pot sized jam, especially since you have 20% to boat up.

I'm not actually overly concerned with being balanced. I just like taking aggressive actions whenever I have enough FE+PE to make it profitable. In a lot of middle hand situations like this I figure I can't lose by betting, because either V is folding so much my bet is profitable (because FE), or I'm ahead because he isn't folding enough -- no middle ground.

I suppose you have a point, especially since we're IP. What's your plan though, checking back twice?

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06-25-2014 , 12:19 AM

#16

dunderstron!

adept

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 842

Why are we trying to use FE when the have the nuts (basically)?

My plan is to bet smaller if the flush comes to extract value from scared kings, and bet bigger if the flush doesn't to extract more value.

If the flush comes, we bet smaller, and he puts us all in, we have a math problem to solve.

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06-25-2014 , 01:12 AM

#17

Aleksei

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,116

Good plan.

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06-25-2014 , 01:43 PM

#18

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,149

I'm cool with preflop.

I would raise the flop since it has a draw on it, and action could slow down if that draw comes in. I would probably just go a typical 3x just to get some more money in the pot.

My guess is that you went broke on this hand (reading into the previous hand you posted), but our plan should be to go broke in raised 3way pots with middle set with stacks not super huge.

ETA: I don't mind an overbet on the flop either which would setup a turn shove. There's much to be said for getting in the most money on the flop which is the most likely street we will get called lightly on.

GcluelessNLnoobG

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