$2/$5 (Private Club)

Villain UTG+1 $2K+ Young Asian, very tricky, plays 30/25 PF, aggressive post, value bets like a champ, fires multiple barrels (will unload the clip) hand reads well, bet sizing is always correct (will bet enough to get the job done when he's looking for folds but will maximize when he has it) BUT if he has a leak it's that he won't give up on a hand if there is even a slim chance he thinks he can take it away - most of the club fears him (I think he plays well but is a gambler that is good at poker)

Hero BTN $1000 - TAG in true sense of the word (definitely tighter than I play for the most part) in a casino I LAG it up but at this club there are too many stations so it makes playing with 'air' unprofitable, raise a lot in position, cbet a lot less than usual (65% maybe) value bet very strongly and often make huge overbets with my big hands - respected by Villain but he will still play back at me (we are 1 and 1a for sure)

Table is loose-passive (as these games tend to be)

10 Handed - 1:00am on a Weekday

Hero OTB w/AdAs
UTG straddles to $10, Villain raises to $20, folds to Hero who raises $70, folds to Villain who calls $50

- I have never seen Villain min-raise PF (or any other time really) I'm not sure what it means

- Before he called my 3bet he looked at my stack and said, "You're kind of deep, I call."

Flop: QdTs2s
$157 (2 Players) Villain checks, Hero bets $115, Villain raises to $290, Hero?

- Hero has $815 behind

- It's $175-to-call-$562

- If I call the pot will be $737 and I'll have $640 behind

- If I shove it'll be $640-to-$1377 for him

- I have the As (is that a good thing or bad thing?)

- I can't put him on QQ, QT and not really on TT

- If we put him on 'air' do we call and let him fire the turn?

What would you folks do here?

I doubt he has air and we're clearly not folding so I would just shove and hope he calls with KQ or something. You're not beat that often but your hand is still vulnerable, so anything other than shove is bad imo

Well if you can't put him on anything that beats you, fold is out. I'm of the opinion you can't all unless you plan call AI on the turn here. I think if you stuff you're only getting called if you're beat, but how do you know where you are on the turn? What kind of hand would he take this line with? Can you put him on KQss or some other big draw?

IMO if you trust your read and he can't have any of those hands you listed and you are a head as we seem to think, shove and make him make the decision to chase or puke if our read was wrong.

raising to 70 was a pretty big error. should have been around 120.

As played vs him, i would hollywood and finally call looking confused. Then ship over a turn bet (or call shove) if board doesnt change. im calling most turn cards anyhow.

He is not calling a 3bet OOP w/KQ too often (maybe KQs which he is not folding now) and he is not stacking off 200bb w/KQ without spades... Did I mention that he is good? Also, u can't dismiss the 'air' factor so quickly.

I prefer call and call-off/shove turn to putting him all-in on the flop.
You having the A reduces the number of semibluffing combos somewhat, and also reduces the number of weaker hands he will stack off with (AKss, AJss, AQss, AXss etc). As you said in your description, he is tricky postflop and won't easily give up if there is a possibility he can take it away. In general I'm pretty happy about putting my stack in based on pot size and the fact that we're facing a LAG on a coordinated board. But I would rather let him do the betting so when we put the stack in it's against a wider range. If he checks the turn, obviously give no free cards.

Here's the things to consider.

1. The mini-raise is a bit weird. At a loose passive table, he's got to assume that he's going to at least get called a lot. TT-KK don't want to play a big MW pot. He's not min raising with a Kxs. Therefore, I'd put him on some sort of pp. He's looking at your stack, so he's trying to figure out whether he can out play you or hit on the flop.

2. What does he think your 3bet range is? Of course, you can have AK, AA and KK. Does he think it could be wider?

3. Can he stack off with air? If you have AA or KK, he knows he has to double barrel to make you give up.

If he can stack off with air, then I'd call. In addition, if your range includes QQ and TT, then call. Otherwise, he's made a great leverage play. You'll have to add checking behind in this situation in your repertoire. In the mean time, shove and spike your 2 outer.

Hands villain can have.

KK (he says you're kinda deep, so he calls, I would wager he would get it in 100-150bb deep, however you're 200bb deep)
QQ (see KK)
TT
22
QTs
KsQs
KsJs
Js9s
9s8s

Vs this range, you're 45.1%.

I really dislike a flat here. What hand can you have here that would 3 (4?) bet pf, cbet the flop on a wet board AND call a c/r and then fold on a blank turn (you think villain is going to think he's going to make you fold on a blank turn)?

Just shove IMO.


Also, what range do you think he calls a 3(4?)bet pf oop with getting a little more than 2 to 1 odds on and getting a little over 18 to 1 implied odds on.

Also assume no fold equity, pot is 1202/815 = 1.47 to 1 = 40.4% equity needed to shove here with 0 fold equity. So +EV to shove given the range I have given villain (although if we shove is villain going to call with KK? we know he's going to call with everything else, hilariously enough if we take KK out of his c/r get it in range, our shove is -EV (having only 26.5% equity vs the above range).

I was going to ask if anybody would check behind (as it definitely crossed my mind.)

As for my 3betting range... Sadly it's very narrow as trying to 3bet light in this game has been a disaster for me (like I said, nobody folds.) That said, I would 3bet this villain light but it just hasn't came up. There are too many soft spots in this game to be fcuking around with this guy.

I have about 100 hours at this place (split across $1/$2 and $2/$5) and about 1/3rd of that time I've played with this villain. So, while I'm still adjusting to this place I feel that I've got a pretty good read on this villain. He should have me pegged as well (although he probably considers me even tighter than I am.) The player pool is very small and I'm pretty sure we are some of the only players getting 'rakeback' in the $2/$5.)

To be clear, versus this villain, on this flop, I'm not prepared to fold (yet.)

checking behind is being completely results orientated imo.

what do you do on a 9x turn? Jx? Kx? Tx? Qx? 8x? and he checks to you.. what if he donks those cards? what do you do on a spade turn (where spade is less than 8)??? and he checks to you? greater than or equal to 8s and he checks to you? what if he donks out on an 8+/spade turn? call? and then he jams river? fold? i mean, if you check back, it just gives him free reign to fire turn if it comes 8+/spade and shove river and make you fold 1 pair type hands (which he will accurately put you on if you check behind on this flop) and then you're either going to either call 1 street or call both streets.

With what you said being said, I'm pretty sure villain puts your range in bet/3betshove at like AsKs/AsQs/QQ+. I'd assume you're going to bet/fold KsKx (KK that has a spade in it, very important because if you have KsKx, he can't have KsJs/KsQs/AsKs/and maybe Ks9s taking away a ton of combo draws), and AQo (again, more apt to get it in with AQo where A and Q is not spade for same reason of KK).

Any chance you have TT here? The way your last post went, I'd say it's very rare you have TT here. Honestly, unless villain is the type to do this with air type hands, you could realistically fold here.

Not results oriented... Villain is tricky. I bet because the idea of a free card was scarier then the possibility of getting check-raised and blown off my hand, that and only deuces would be in his check-raising range (for the hands I would be behind.)

I don't see why villain can't have TT or QQ here. You said he's a good player who's observant so he probably knows you're not 3betting light here and your range is pretty strong in this spot, aka {AKo,AKs,QQ+}. Arguably he could assume your range is tighter due to how he thinks you play really tight. Versus this tight of a 3betting range I doubt he's 4betting TT or QQ and I really doubt he's folding them 200bb deep. He's got the right odds to set mine with TT and QQ. Also the minraise preflop who knows what that means. We can't look too much into it if he's never done it before (maybe he didn't notice the straddle and was going for a normal 4x open, it's a stretch I know but meh).

As played it really depends on my history in 3bet pots with this villain. Is he the type to turn a missed low PP into a bluff on this flop in a 3bet pot? It's a tricky spot to do versus an opponent with a very narrow 3betting range pre.

Everyone saying we should shove I really don't understand your logic. What combo draws are in his range here? Is he the type to flat a 3bet OOP with a hand like KQss, KJss, 98ss etc? If he is than I could see shoving as those draws will have to call but what hands are really calling this shove that we are beating (or not flipping with). None.

Also a check behind isn't bad at all. Given description of action it does look a lot like he has a pocket pair here. Checking behind gives him a chance to turn his weak pair into a bluff and we're probably not going to get value out of 33-99. Maybe JJ we could get value from.

I don't put him on TT or QQ because he didn't raise (a decent amount) PF. Why would he want to play a multi-way pot OOP with either of those hands? (btw: He normally opens for $40 in a straddled pot)

Idk, I wouldn't understand why he wouldn't open to 20 with TT/QQ PF because everyone else that wants to be in position with him has to put 20 in pf and everyone else has to put in 18/15/10 and be out of position with him (which isn't a great spot)..

But seeing your read, I'd put his range at more of a 22/QT/spade+draw than a TT/QQ/KK range.

So vs that range (9s8s/QTs/KsQs/KsJs/Js9s/22/QsJs), you're 37.5% equity which makes a shove -EV. I guess you can call and get it in on a non spade turn.

If we add in Ks9s/Qs9s (again, you haven't given us a range of what villain will call OOP with, but you have said he is a gambler and he has a decent vpip% however, not sure how wide it is OOP and in EP), you have 40.74% equity. And if we include these combos in his range, it makes shoving very marginally +EV (although not that much more than 0EV that we're getting from folding).

Fold, Shove, Call and shove/callshove on a non-spade turn probably have the same equity imo.

If you do call here, YOU MUST CALL HIS SHOVE ON THE TURN IF IT IS A NON-SPADE. If it's a spade turn, IT IS A MUST FOLD.

Even on bad turn cards (like 8/9/J/Q/K non spades), you're 31.7-40% equity. Which means, 737 in pot, 640 behind = 737+640/640 = 1377/640 = 2.15 to 1 = 31.7% equity. Which means you must call on all non spade turns.

However, vs any spade turn, you're MOST equity is, 25.758% (Ks turn) and 25% (Js turn), vs anything else, you're looking at 20% equity so you must fold.

I'd be willing to bet he has Ks Js or Ks Qs. But KsJs is a monster for him.

I'd eliminate QT (for the most part) and at this game there will be no lack of callers (most times) for an opening raise to $20 as there is quite often a double straddle anyway.

Due to the min raise pre and post flop play I put him on AA,KK, 22, and air.

To me he min raises with 22 to build a pot but not have to call a huge raise (he may have here because like he said youre deep)

AA,KK because he was expecting someone behind him to raise. When it was you he needs flat those hands to your 3bet so that he can play stacks. Someone else he probably just gets it in pre. Dont know the full dynamics of game though

Air because he's bored (maybe a suited connector). This is the most unlikely though IMO. 98ss very well could be but that would be bad all the way around pre flop. The way you describe him this wouldnt make sense.

I think with QQ or TT he either a) raises more or b) 4bets you.

If he did this with JJ (or really any other pp) it would be really weird.

Just my read of the situation.

So what's his range here then? The way you're talking about this, is that he only has 22 and combo draws here, since he never TT/QQ/KK/AA/QTs here..

If he only has

22
KsQs
KsJs
QsJs
Js9s
9s8s

Then shoving is -EV (you only have 39.23% equity and you need 40.7%)

HOWEVER, if he has Ks9s OR Qs9s in his range then a shove is +EV (from 40.9-42.7% equity). Shoving being +0.2-2.0% in ev = +2-20 in ev.

Do you think he flats the 3bet OOP with those hands though? Maybe. If so then I agree with everything you're saying. But I also like to call in this spot then get it in on any blank turn and fold a spade turn. Plus it gives him the chance to jam on a blank turn with air which we can snap.

FTR: I don't like shoving very much

Also, u didn't include any 'air' in his range

if you cant dismiss air, why would TT or QTs be so impossible? you said he thinks your a tight nit - how are the other players? are they aggro enough to push him off weaker connectors and 1 gappers often enough? or does he seem confidant enough in his post flop play and reading that he wont worry about so often?

edit: i didnt finish reading your other posts abuot the game/quality yet either.

Does he view you as a good thinking player who can adjust or as just a tight nit? Because a smart lag wouldnt try to bluff a tight nit off KK+ on this flop.

this hand is so ******ed.

just call and call on non spade turns. fold on spade turns. or shove now. or fold now.

they all probably have the same EV.

do your own homework.

Great post... Thx for ur scary advice

EDIT: Jesus, I wish I wasn't on my BB so I could search more of ur posts and take my game to the next level.

BTW: He knows I'm a thinking player as we've talked a little bit off the table about ranges, equity, etc.

Turn: Tc
$737 (2 Players) Villain bets $325, Hero?

Call or shove? (and yes, I know the answer)

Guys, I post almost any interesting spot I run into more for the betterment of the forum, entertainment of myself (and others) and because it's nice to get other thinking player's opinions (seeing if I'm on the same page.) If 'borderline' and the likes would like to read more posts about 'how many buy-ins do I need to play $1/$2 three times a month?' I'll just go back to lurking. Do my own homework? Fcuk u